10mm gel tests

[Raggedyman]

Looked a lot like other 10mm and .357 mag bullets that didn't expand. Maybe a little more cutting but nothing really impressive. Went pretty deep to be sure, but a heavier FMJ or hard cast would probably go a lot deeper. I'm pretty sure the ONLY thing this would do better than other loads is penetrate soft armor or hard barriers.

Also, remember that the clay is not a ballistic media on its own. Its only purpose is to provide a yielding backer to the vest so that if the bullet is stopped, it can show you a snapshot of how far the back face of the armor deformed. When bullets pass through clay, it moves out of the way and stays there, whereas gelatin and tissue stretch and return to shape. Gelatin will show cracks where it stretched too far but tissue can stretch much farther without damage.

Raggedyman,

Have you done enough testing with WFN hard cast bullets to tell whether there is actually much of a difference in its wound channel than the wound channel of a typical flat nose fmj 10mm range load? Given that both bullets hold together, do you think that a WFN is that much better than a fmj?

No, sir, I couldn't say for sure. If I were to speculate, I'd say that the EP does about the same amount of actual cutting as anything with a nice, flat meplat.

[Raggedyman]

[Intercooler]

It says the video is private?

[Raggedyman]

Sorry. I though it could still be viewed. It is scheduled to publish on Friday but I thought I'd give you guys a sneak peak. On my phone now but I'll figure something out later.

Edit: Okay, well, I'm retarded. I thought that if I scheduled the publish date you could still watch it if you had the link, like an unlisted video. Then I thought I could just upload a duplicate and set it as unlisted so the members here could see it. Can't do that because YouTube won't allow duplicate videos. I fail at uploading/publishing today.

[Raggedyman]

Well, now it's live. Sorry for the confusion.

[shaneshot]

Since I'm new both to this forum and to the 10mm. Looks like I'm going to be reading 28 pages of this thread today. Thanks for all of the hard work!

[shaneshot]

Ok, I've gone through everything and have some questions.
1) I currently have some Underwood 180gr XTP that I had planned on keeping for SD. From reading, I may need to save this for hunting as over-penetration could be an issue is a urban setting?
2) Has anyone ever done any testing on Freedom Munitions to know if their advertised velocities are close? http://www.freedommunitions.com/10mm-180-gr-JHP-New-p/fm10j180n-b0050.htm#

[Rojo27]

You can actually see the bullet exit the block and bounce off the water jug (obvious that little energy remained).  Did you find it? 

Might be decent for varmint shooting but certainly wouldn't recommend for personal defense against anything bigger than that. 

[Raggedyman]

Rojo, I did not see the bullet and I had a tarp down. I'm pretty sure that was just a piece of gelatin that you see on the video.

[Raggedyman]

shaneshot, I'm not much of a believer in over penetration being an issue. Take a look at the master sheet (below) that intercooler put together. If you're worried about penetration, take a look at 165 gr Gold Dot or Golden Saber.



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?hl=en&hl=en&key=0Ak5OC6bPsjO8dEh6eGZ3N3hpUU13SXM5cm9pZy16T0E&type=view&gid=0&f=true&sortcolid=8&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250

[shaneshot]

Well there are lots of variables between tests by different standards. That being said, there's one with the Underwood 180gr XTP that was going almost too fast allowing separation and penetrated 18". Very drastic, in a good way, I just don't want to have to worry too much about what it'll go thru and hit. Again, I'm learning and without real world flesh and bone, it's hard to know exactly.

[Raggedyman]

My tests are not scientific but are performed using real gelatin and, unless otherwise noted, they all calibrate within standard and the calibration results are given in the description. Gelatin does not simulate bone, but according to experts who have examined actual bullet wounds in real people, it correlates very strongly with penetration and expansion results in human soft tissue.

The FBI recommends 12"-18" of penetration. While there are numerous accounts of bad guys who were not stopped due to inadequate penetration, I know of no cases where an innocent person was struck by a bullet that was fired in lawful self defense and passed through a bad guy.

[shaneshot]

Sorry raggedy, didn't mean your tests. I meant as far as comparing to others. You've tired your best to make them all standardized with known protocols. Others that I've seen may or may not have, that's what I was referring to. I also realize there is no perfect answer without knowing the exact scenario and placement. Now that you mention it, I'm unaware of any damaging 'pass-throughs'. Thanks again!

[sqlbullet]

Regardless, every gun owned in the world owes you big time for your efforts.  Your library of data is great!

[Intercooler]

  And even if the Glock board allows what they want, by who they want... we are EXTREMELY HAPPY to have you here posting and testing away!