New 10mm PD reloads using Federal HST180s and Hornady FlexLock 175s

[jeffreybehr]

I started discussing these in this thread...
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/fwiw-i-now-have-four-boxes-of-factory-10mm-pd-cartridges/
...but here's where I'll post results.

My first attempts at a PD round using 180s at about 1100FPS(1) were using 8.4g. of HS-6(2) and the Federal HST180 pulled from factory ammo in 40S&W and Hornady FlexLock175s pulled from 40S&W Critical Duty ammo.  Average muzzle velocities(3) from my 4.6"-barreled Tanfoglio Witness Polymer Full Size were 1132 and 1146FPS, a little high.  Tonite I've reduced those by 0.2 and 0.3 grains, and I'll test velocity and expansion of those Saturday the 30th.  I also assembled higher-velocity loads of these two bullets to test, along with the expensive Federal Vital-Shok Trophy Bonded JSP180s which achieved a muzzle velocity of 1313FPS today.  OVER-achieving velocity doesn't happen very often with factory loads, huh?!?!

Results tomorrow, God willing and this oldfart doesn't run out of energy.


(1) That velocity seems to me to be substantially higher in energy than from the 40S&W (that being below 1000FPS in the Federal HST factory load) and yet not so high in recoil to make follow-up shots difficult.  Also, I like the idea of subsonic velocities.  Do understand that these are my personal opinions/preferences which makes them neither right nor wrong; they're just mine.
(2) Probably my favorite powder for several cartridges I've loaded over the decades (along with the faster-burning Universal in practice loads for the 40S&W and 45Auto).  Both are versatile and VERY low in muzzle-flash which I and others believe is important in PD ammo.
(3) ...measured with my new LabRADAR system, which was rather frustrating to get running.  Now that it is, it produces a velocity that makes sense for EVERY shot regardless of light conditions, AND I don't have to fool around with optical screens not working in the glare of the desert sun or wind blowing over the tripod and screens, etc.

[jeffreybehr]

Tested expansion in my normal way, shooting bullets into a series of 1-gallon waterjugs from 10 feet.  The bottom row of bullets in each pic passed thru 2 layers of denim taped to the front of the front jug; the top row of bullets passed thru a fairly thick pad of denim front and back with four layers of terrytowel in between.  My intention with that is to replicate the FBI's thick-clothing test.  Based on my viewings of others' testing with four layers of denim, mine is the tougher test, that is, the thick terrytowels tend to plug the openings of HP bullets more than denim does, thereby inhibiting expansion.

Bullets in LH column are Federal Vital-Shok Trophy Bonded 180s at around 1300FPS.  The center column contains Hornady FlexLock 175s pulled from their 40S&W Critical Duty ammo.  The RH column contains a trio of Federal HST 180s pulled from their Premium Tactical 40S&W ammo.  Altho I tried today, I do not have velocities for the latter-two cartridges, as my LabRADAR failed to register a single bullet in flight.  Yesterday's loads of these bullets...
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/fwiw-i-now-have-four-boxes-of-factory-10mm-pd-cartridges/
...reply #11, ran at about 1130 and 1140FPS; today's were significantly higher, but we won't know by how much until tomorrow.




I was disappointed that the Trophy Bonded did not expand after passing thru the thick-clothing pad, but I believe this was designed as a hunting bullet where (I think) penetration is more important than expansion, so it may work very well in four-legged animals.  The FlexLocks in the center and the HSTs on the right again performed approximately perfectly, seemingly unaffected by the higher velocities today.  Weights of all seven bullets were within one percent of original weight.

The HST is my choice; I guess I better get to pulling bullets!

[The_Shadow]

Thanks for your great report Jeffrey! 
Yes, the Federal HST is a great round with its wide cavity and the long skives down the jacket.
The Hornady Flexlock has the cannelure to prevent the core from separating but it also stops the jacket from rolling down too far and that prevent over expansion.
The Federal Vital-Shok Trophy Bonded tends to act like a solid especially with the thicker jacket cup.

[tommac919]

Love the flower bloom of the HST's

[Benchrst]

I picked up some 135, 155, 180gr HSTs. Might try wet newspaper at different velocities, see how they behave when pushed.


Now, where to find newspaper...

[jeffreybehr]

Love the flower bloom of the HST's

Me too.   

[DM1906]

I picked up some 135, 155, 180gr HSTs. Might try wet newspaper at different velocities, see how they behave when pushed.


Now, where to find newspaper...

I use phone books and catalogs. Much easier to manage than newspaper, especially if used wet.

[jeffreybehr]

Tested expansion in my normal way, shooting bullets into a series of 1-gallon waterjugs from 10 feet.  The bottom row of bullets passed thru 2 layers of denim taped to the front of the front jug; the top row of bullets passed thru a fairly thick pad of denim front and back with four layers of terrytowel in between.  My intention with that is to replicate the FBI's thick-clothing test.  Based on my viewings of others' testing with four layers of denim, mine is the tougher test, that is, the thick terrytowels tend to plug the openings of HP bullets more than denim does, thereby inhibiting expansion.

LH bullets are Federal Vital-Shok Trophy Bonded 180s at around 1300FPS.  The center column contains Hornady FlexLock 175s pulled from their 40S&W Critical Duty ammo.  The RH column contains a trio of Federal HST 180s pulled from their Premium Tactical 40S&W ammo.  Altho I tried today, I do not have velocities for the latter-two cartridges, as my LabRADAR failed to register a single bullet in flight.  Yesterday's loads of these bullets...
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/fwiw-i-now-have-four-boxes-of-factory-10mm-pd-cartridges/
...reply #11, ran at about 1130 and 1140FPS; today's were significantly higher, but we won't know by how much until tomorrow.

...

I was disappointed that the Trophy Bonded did not expand after passing thru the thick-clothing pad, but I believe this was designed as a hunting bullet where (I think) penetration is more important than expansion, so it may work very well in four-legged animals.  The FlexLocks in the center and the HSTs on the right again performed approximately perfectly, seemingly unaffected by the higher velocities today.  Weights of all seven bullets were within one percent of original weight.

The HST is my choice; I guess I better get to pulling bullets!

I now have plenty of HSTs pulled**, but with my busy schedule as a retiree and too many hobbies, I'm still working on that high-velocity load to expansion-test.  I've gotten to about 1190FPS-MV with 13.4g. of A9 and will try--actually tried today but was turned back by our unusually-rain-stormy weather--13.6 grains next time.  FWIW, I downloaded ALL 10mm loads with 180g. jacketed bullets from Wolfe's LoadData.com, culled it of low-, medium-, and medium-high-velocity loads and those using high-muzzle-flash powders*, and ended up with exactly TWO powders, A9 and VV N105.  These two are also the two powders achieving the highest velocities with 180s as published by powder companies that use pressure barrels, so we'll see what happens after my two bottles of N105 arrive from Natchez.

BTW if any of you would like some of these bullets to test, e-mail me at jeffreybehr(at)cox(dot)net and I'll mail you maybe a dozen.

* 800-X, Blue Dot, and Longshot
** and still have many-hundreds of cartridges left to pull.

[Benchrst]

I use phone books and catalogs.

What's a phone book?

[sqlbullet]

whats a book?

[jeffreybehr]

I use phone books and catalogs.

What's a phone book?

What's a book?

Poor, uneducated babies.   

[Blades]

whats a book?

I guess these days we should be using e-readers? How many Kindles does a 10mm 180 grain XTP pass through at 1300 fps? 

[jeffreybehr]

I've finally narrowed the range of powder charges for my PD load--that goal being a HST180 at around 1100FPS-MV--to 9.0 to 9.2g. of HS-6, generating about 1085 to 1110FPS-MV.  Tried to shoot the 2nd-and-final batch of those on my 2nd visit to Ben Avery Shooting Facility today but got 'winded' out.  The weather here is still hot, blustery, and sometimes VERY rainy.

Have given up on getting the HST180 to c. 1250FPS using A9.  Altho 13.4g. produced no loose primer pockets today, it did produce only 1194FPS-MV from my 4.6" barrel.  I prefer to get closer to 1300 than 1200 in velocity, and because that'll take maybe 13.7 - 14g. of A9, I'll wait for the VV N105 that's on the way.  After that, I'll expansion test the HST180 at that higher velocity.

[jeffreybehr]

I've found my PD load, that being the HST180 at around 1100FPS-MV--it's 9.0g. of HS-6, new StarLine nickeled case, the pulled HST180 seated to 1.250-1.252" OAL, a probably-more-than-moderate taper crimp, and WLP primer.  MV of a 10-sample lot averaged 1093FPS with an ES of 37 and a high velocity of 1112, still subsonic.  I'm happy and finished with this one.   

As part of the quest for a high-vel.* PD round to test expansion, I received the two pounds of N105 and have shot a couple batches.  In my 4.6"-barreled Witness Polymer, velocities from the first batch's loads were substantially below those VihtaVouri showed from their 5.5" barrel, even at 0.1g. over their max. of 9.9g.  With that in mind, I assembled and shot most of four loads with 10.2 thru 10.8g. and decided that one can't get there from here** with a 4.6" barrel, achieving a highest average MV of only 1158FPS with 10.8g. of N105--that's 0.9g. over VV's max.

Have now decided to pursue this with my Aero Survival carbine's 16" barrel and have assembled loads from 10.7g to 11.0g.  More later.

* my definition being at least 1250FPS with a 180
** Remember that old joke about the farmer and the lost city-slicker?

[jeffreybehr]

Finally got everything loaded and running.  Loaded the HST180s atop 10.9g. of N105, exactly one grain over VV's manual's maximum charge.  From my carbine's 16-1/4" barrel, that generated about 1300FPS muzzle velocity.  Shot a couple thru my normal series of 1-gallon water jugs, one with 2 layers of denim on the front jug and another with the 6-layer pad mentioned earlier.  The results are that the HST is still an excellent bullet even at 1300FPS.


The remains on the right are from a 180g. Winchester, available in bulk at Midway...
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1390103549/winchester-bullets-40-s-and-w-10mm-auto-400-diameter-180-grain-jacketed-hollow-point
...thru 2 layers of denim---certainly not a result to be proud of.

But the HST looks like an excellent bullet for the guys with long barrels looking for excellent performance at high velocities (and resulting high recoil).  I'm plenty happy with my 1100FPS load.