10mm newbie ammo questions

[Chris111146]

First off hey guys!

I'm new to the 10mm and I just bought an RIA double stacked, which I'm very excited to try out.

I have a few questions regarding ammo though: what is the best self defense ammo, what ammo do you recommend for the woods, what ammo is good for plinking and lastly is there a round that can be suitable for both self defense and woods carry?

I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but I would be grateful for answers, even if you only know one or two!

Thanks,
Christian

[The_Shadow]

Christian, hello and welcome to the forum and the world of 10mm guns and ammo/

Underwood has a good line of ammo and 165 -180 JHP's "Gold Dot" are great defensive loads.  The 200 grain XTP is a great hunting load and also some of the heavy Hard Cast but they can sometimes have feeding issues.

Sig has a 180 gr JHP V Crown which has shown good properties for self defense.

The Armscor ammo is paper punching stuff in my opinion.  There are many other good ammos if you look around to see just what is available and what projectiles are being used at what speeds.

best regards! 

[sqlbullet]

The Shadow gave good advice, as he always does.  I would add the the S&B ammo can be found pretty cheap as well and is good for plinking.  Keep you eyes open for it.

[Chris111146]

Thank you for all the responses!

[sstewart]

Sig 180 grain FMJ is strong practice ammo. Not like Underwood but still very good ammo.


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[Wolfie]

Not for nothin. Based on price its all good.

I would shoot PPU for $15 a box, not $25. Lots of selection from top to bottom and the price in some cases is less than 45 ACP.

Its a 10mm resurgence embrace it.

[gandog56]

An answer like this is never easy, because no single load is good for every purpose. What are you going to use the gun for, target, hunting, or self defence. Every different situation calls for a different ammo. My mainstay for practice are my 185 grain RFN reloaded ammo. Great for target shooting and practicing. Hunting load? I would go with maybe a 200 grain lead load. Self defense, I use 180 grain hollowpoints.

[Chris111146]

Hey guys,

Just to update you guys I haven't gotten my pistol yet, it'll be here in a couple days. I got a few boxes of armscore stuff and 2 boxes of sig v crown. Do I need to get some XTPs for woods carry or will the v crown work well enough? I'm using it for defense against bears, Bob cats (though I think I could do that with a 22), mountain lions, hogs and angry poachers. I have a ranch in southern oklahoma with all of the above.

[The_Shadow]

Bobcats are fairly thin skinned and most any thing will work.  Bears however are thick heavy bodied animals and as such you need deep driving bullets, such as Heavy Jacketed or Hard Cast 10mm can be somewhat effective with really great shot placement, but don't expect a large bear to fall dead right there.  That being said same for big hogs and Mountain lions, they could still bring some hurt on you with incapacitation taking longer than you may think!

Common sense is needed to study the vitals of an animal and picture the shot placement and what internal organs and structures the bullet may encounter as it traverses that particular animal!

Then there are those snakes out there...

A good shot gun can be an effective tool with an assortment of shot sizes and slugs just so you know!

[Chris111146]

Yeah I have a Benelli m2 but I don't really like lugging it around. Most of the black bears in my area are pretty small so I'm not extremely worried about them, afterall I'll have 17 rounds. I see that a lot of people hunt with XTPs so I'm curious if the V's are decent for defense. Luckily mountain lions have easy vitals to reach, so I'm mainly just looking for something I can kill a hog with or defend myself from a trespasser with. Snakes are definitely a problem for me, but the way I see it anything I'm carrying will kill one easily.

[Chris111146]

Basically thus is replacing my ak, which I was tired of lugging up the rocky mountains.

[jeffreybehr]

...
what is the best self defense ammo
...
Thanks, Christian

First, understand that all the answers you've gotten and will continue to get are OPINIONS (including mine), and opinions come in hugely varying degrees of being researched and substantiated.  That said...

The 10mm world is curiously lacking in excellent PD rounds, the most glaring omission being Federal's super-excellent HST series(1).  The Speer Gold Dots used to be considered excellent, but they, like lots of popular HP bullets designed for personal defense, expand not at all or very little after passing thru thick clothing--which is a good way to shoot the next person in the path of the bullet, a result that's generally not desired.  I'd certainly stay away from the old-design Winchester Silvertip, but this opinion is totally unsubstantiated because I've not tested them.  The Federal Hydro-Shock is another has-been that doesn't expand thru thick clothing, and I often wonder why Federal still sells the obsolete design--except I don't really wonder...they must sell well.  Two potentially excellent PD rounds in 10mm are the newish SIG-SAUER V-Crown 180g. JHP with an advertised velocity of 1250FPS and the Hornady Critical Duty 175g. FlexLock advertised at 1150FPS.  These substantial velocity differences are immaterial, since what matters most in PD situations is shot placement, with bullet performance definitely 2nd(2).  'Power' is a distant third (at best), and higher power thru higher velocity could be a negative factor with its higher recoil and hence longer time required to get back on target for the subsequent shots(3) in a PD situation.  In factory ammo, an inexpensive and perhaps temporary alternative is Prvi's 100%-reliable-in-my-pistols(4) 180g. JHP, available for as little as about 36 cents each...
http://www.sgammo.com/catalog/pistol-ammo-sale/10mm-auto-ammo

I have boxes of the SIG-SAUER, Hornady, and PPU cartridges to expansion and velocity test, but that probably will take me weeks in the desert heat.

The best-overall PD bullet around is the all-copper Barnes TAC-XP.  Over the last 10 years or so I've expansion tested many dozens of these in several different calibers and weights and EVERY ONE has expanded and penetrated very well.  See
http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo/10mm-loads-with-barnes-155g-tac-xp/
...reply #10 to see my latest results.


With the paranoid screachings of the fascist-socialist Democrats reaching ever-higher levels, I continue to expand my inventories of PD ammo with 500 of the Prvi HPs on the way and my slow, steady, continuous loading of my Barnes TAC-XP-155-based handloads in 10mm.

(1) which, based on my fairly exhaustive research, is the overall-best popularly priced (that is, around 50 cents per cartridge) PD factory ammo available.
(2) IOW, a FMJ that has penetrated the chest cavity of the badguy is lots better for the goodguy than a beautifully expanded HP bullet that struck the wall next to him.
(3) Understand that the FBI stated: If lethal force is warranted and appropriate under the circumstances, the" (defender) "must shoot until the threat ceases." Pinizzotto, Kern, and Davis, FBI Academy
(4) In my perhaps-harsh opinion, only an idiot trusts his life to ammo he hasn't verified to be 100% reliable in HIS firearm(s), and 'verified' does NOT include merely buying one box and shooting a few rounds at the local trash-heap 'shooting range'.

[The_Shadow]

In law enforcement, their main objective is to bring the person to justice, not just outright kill them as they try to stop a threat.  This is what Jeffrey eluded to with the statement regarding the FBI and the use of lethal force.  It is also another reason they switched back to the 9mm firearms among various other situational objectives.

With regards to ammo selection, what is needed is to think about what methods of injury bring about incapacitation and or death. 

Shock factor where the result of trauma has occurred and the person or animal just sits still but very well could react again.

Blood loss which can take several minutes depending on what tissues (heart, lung, other), blood vessels were that are leaking and how fast.  Usually the brain will start to shut down in 4 to 6 minutes with the lack of oxygen due to blood loss.
Heavy blood leaking into the lungs can also lessen the oxygen supply and perforated chest walls can collapse the lungs can reduce the effectiveness.  Organs like the liver and kidneys are semi solid but have large blood content.

Nervous system disruption can be anywhere from instantaneous to long and drawn out depending on what is disrupted, brain function and control of the body organs and systems via spinal cord and major nerve bundles...Central Nervous system disruption can be lights out but these targets are very small in comparison the center of mass.

The bodies of human and or animals are amazing at doing things to sustain itself, even in the event of heavy trauma.

Therefore the bullet of choice may or may not hit vital structures that would lead to incapacitation.  This is where the use of bullets that expand reliably are used to impact more structures.  It is why expanding bullets are used in the self defense scenario to avoid the pass through exit with enough energy to injure or kill others in the area. 

With regards to hunting, pass through out in the wide open spaces, doesn't present as much a hazardous condition as close quarter engagements.  However the pass through shot allows faster blood loss two hole bleed more, possibly impacting tissue, vessels and bone structures through the entire path of travel.

[Dave84]

My opinion of a good do all everything load would be the 200 grain Nosler or xtp loaded by either Underwood or doubletap. Should have enough power and energy to stop just about anything.

[gandog56]

Hey guys,

Just to update you guys I haven't gotten my pistol yet, it'll be here in a couple days. I got a few boxes of armscore stuff and 2 boxes of sig v crown. Do I need to get some XTPs for woods carry or will the v crown work well enough? I'm using it for defense against bears, Bob cats (though I think I could do that with a 22), mountain lions, hogs and angry poachers. I have a ranch in southern oklahoma with all of the above.

Now I love my 3 10mm pistols and Mechtech CCU. But for bears I am breaking out my .454 Casull with 300 grain bullets!