Full power 10mm 165gr deal. This is stock-up time!

[Intercooler]

Full-power 10mm 165gr deal

Anthony at PBR Ammo has offered up his 165's in full-power loading for $21.30/box of 50. I received notice today his shipment of Starline brass is on it's way. Spread the word to anyone you know who desires this. It's an outstanding deal anyway you look at it compared to what is out there.

Website:

http://www.pbrammo.com/catalog/ammunition-caliber/10mm


I'm not a member of Glock Talk, so if someone can cut and paste to their 10mm section that would be great or other 10mm spots. If the response is good it may be enough to keep it running. Let's hope!

[REDLINE]

It doesn't do much for me, as those are numbers I hope to see from 180gr, let alone 165gr.  We already have better than that with Underwood.  So for me personally, not really interested.  Still a good price for what you get though.

[Intercooler]

I don't get it. I have to look back at who the guy/guys were that complained about stuff being too strong.


   Kevin makes great ammo. The very top level 10mm at $25.00/box! Would I want to shoot nothing but the top level 10mm for target practicing? H E L L NO! It's hands down going to be the best value 10mm target ammo out there in Starline brass. It's real 10mm but you can shoot it all day more so than the extreme upper end stuff. Save on your gun a little and at $21.30 a box if you buy 10 you saved $37.00. If you can lead me to a better deal on something like that I would love to see it. It was like pulling teeth to get this going. Their were two options similar... both of which are gone now and likely to never return. Support those who support us!

[REDLINE]

You're right.  You didn't and still don't get it I guess.

Let me try once more to spell it out for you.  At 1250fps we mostly don't have a problem.  It's when the same rounds are hitting 1300fps that many of us take pause.  Why?  Because CLEARLY there is an incosistency there.  And the question becomes;  How far might that inconsistency lead?

I'm not trying to be rude here, I just don't see how that is so hard to grasp.

And yes, there are some guys that seem to be wary with a 200XTP load at anything beyond 1200fps.  But I don't think that's because they are literally worried about major issues at 1250fps, just that they see no need to go beyond 1200fps, or as some of the put it;  "beyond original Norma spec."

And in regard to Original Norma Spec, I think those people bringing that up are wrong to do so without further info being available.  I say that because we don't know what powder Norma used to hit 1200fps with a 200gr bullet.  In other words, at 1250fps and 800X powder, Underwood may not actually be surpassing whatever pressure levels Norma was actually hitting.  Maybe, maybe not, but we certainly don't know, and have no reason to suspect either way besides a velocity difference which is far from telling a whole story.

[Intercooler]

I don't get it... why the turn-off from something good like this. This thread has nothing to do with any of Kevin's stuff.

[REDLINE]

I only brought up Underwood as a comparison because you brought up the 165gr load in question as a full power loading.  I'm not saying Underwood velocities have to be reached to be considered full power, just that I don't consider this 165gr load by PBR full power.  1306fps with a 165gr bullet (JHP load) = 625 lb-ft.  I consider that a solid mid range performer, clearly surpassing 40S&W power levels, but not full power.  Hence why I brought up Underwood which also has good pricing, but with real deal full power loads in every bullet weight.

Then there's the 165gr FMJ PBR load in the "Premium Line", and it is only reaching 532 lb-ft.  That's just plain weak by 10mm potential standards overall.  May as well be shooting 40S&W then.

[Intercooler]

 You sure you aren't on Romnesia? You waffle alot 

It's full power. I got more than the rating and looking at the list the next three aren't much better. So if you don't like the consistency of Underwood, scared to shoot it... whatever the reason and would like to have something better than anything else at a price better than anything else here it is. What's your suggested for a plinking full-power?

[4949shooter]

The PBR looks like a good plinking round at a decent price. I applaud you, Intercooler, and PBR for support the 10mm shooting fraternity.

As far as the references to the other thread, we have been trying to explain that the extreme speads (200 grains up to 1299) are too much for the likes of many of us. On the other thread I suggested a market for "Norma level" or "classic level" 10mm loads (ie. 200 @ 1200). In this manner, the spreads up to 1240 or so aren't as dangerous for some of our stock guns. Actually, Redline said it, some of us don't see the need to push it to 1299. What's the sense? So one of us can have a KB, and then all the manufacturers will want to back their loads down to 1150?

If some guys want 200 grains at 1300 fps that's fine. Kevin and the other manufacturers can market an extreme velocity round for those who want it, and a "classic level" round for those who don't.

To reiterate....no, I have no desire to fire 200 grains at 1300 fps out of my Glock. 200 grains at 1200 (+ or -) will be fine for 95% of the 10mm shooters out there.

Again, I applaud you for having the passion and initiative to be a 10mm proponent.

[Intercooler]

Who's getting 1300 out of a 200gr? In a Glock 20 based off my results out of my Match 4.75" barrel expect this:

180gr 1310-1340 FPS. Nothing crazy there.
200gr 1240-1270 FPS. Stronger than Norma but not crazy.
220gr 1170-1200 FPS. I had a DoubleTap 215gr do 1201 FPS out of my same Match that Kevin's 220gr did 1200 FPS. Splitting hairs.

I do believe the original Norma was at a higher pressue rating. I can't remember where exactly I read it now or I would post it up.

[Intercooler]

Skip to 1:38 to see the second DoubleTap 215gr Hard Cast being fired. The first one gave an error and I only had two rounds.

[4949shooter]

Who's getting 1300 out of a 200gr? In a Glock 20 based off my results out of my Match 4.75" barrel expect this:

180gr 1310-1340 FPS. Nothing crazy there.
200gr 1240-1270 FPS. Stronger than Norma but not crazy.
220gr 1170-1200 FPS. I had a DoubleTap 215gr do 1201 FPS out of my same Match that Kevin's 220gr did 1200 FPS. Splitting hairs.

I do believe the original Norma was at a higher pressue rating. I can't remember where exactly I read it now or I would post it up.

It was referenced in the other thread. I don't know where he got his numbers.

Doc has it at 1284 which is an average velocity:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjsXvXEryDJjdFhsRUcwSHRUcktCMmhOMTVFa25xa1E#gid=0

[Intercooler]

If you feel like reading through some stuff on pressures, etc... here is some stuff written when SwampFox (Mudrush) was still doing 10mm.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1332131&page=4

[REDLINE]

LOL  I could have a touch of Romnesia, but the waffle terminology is a tad to George Dubya for my tastes.

Regarding "full power", we'll just have to agree to disagree.

As for where does a 200gr @ 1300fps come from?  It comes from MrRedbull616 hitting both 1291 and 1299 using a G20 in conjunction with a 4.6" Lone Wolf barrel.  That's close enough to 1300fps to be called 1300fps, from a Glock 4.6, for me.

Your 4.75" Elite does, even under normal circumstances, posts higher numbers.  Cool.  But your Elite has also of course literally surpassed 1300fps with UW's 200XTP load rated for 1250fps, and I hold that in question of what pressure levels were reaching too.  I expect your Elite to be faster, but with a 200gr bullet, not that much faster.  For the round out of MrRedbull616's gun that achieved 1299fps, I wonder what that one would have achieve from your gun.

I also wonder what the other 41 rounds in MrRedbull616's box of 50 would have posted for velocity.  He only tested 9, and they were all over the place.  Are we to assume that the one that reached 1299 was the most powerful one in the box of 50?

Maybe I'm making much ado about nothing.  Maybe not.  Time will tell.  I do know that my simple concerns are valid.  I just don't know to what extent.  In the mean time I'm just keeping it real, a tad bit of Romnesia or not.  

[Intercooler]

  It's really simple. If you don't trust it then don't buy or shoot it and that goes for any ammo. You can't talk out of one corner of your mouth saying something is good and the other corner criticize it. If you read that link I put up you will see mention of 40k-44k pressures and average pressures. Try to decipher it and relate it to what you fear in Kevin's stuff. I have never seen any pressure sign out of any ammo I have shot except Armscor. Have you? I sure don't read about any if they are out there (it's the internet so I know we would see it).
     I save every single piece of brass and sell all of it to reloaders. Never a complaint about bulges, etc...

[The_Shadow]

Let me refer you all to my post #2 in the stick...It explains the SAAMI testing parameters.
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/10mm-ammo-history/