Full power 10mm 165gr deal. This is stock-up time!

[REDLINE]

The link has a lot of good info.  Though it leaves me with more questions than it answers.  Mudrush says he didn't load his regular loads past 36,000psi.  How does he know that?  And if he was testing psi himself, are the results he came up with the same as a 3rd party tester would have come up with that tests exactly according to SAAMI, and did he test also according to SAAMI protocol?  Heck if I know.  Doesn't sound like anyone else does either.  And that's just one point I ponder.

About the 44,000psi being mentioned in the link.  I don't know where that comes from.  Maybe someone made it on the internet?

What I do know from SAAMI's website regarding the 10mm Auto is the following:
Maximum Average Pressure = 37,500psi
Maximum Probable Lot Mean = 38,700psi
Maximum Probable Sample Mean = 40,500psi

As for how Kevin's stuff compares psi wise, who's to say?  How does Kevin pressure test his stuff?  Exactly SAAMI protocol?  As for bulges, I've gotten them from Double Tap ammo.  I don't care about bulges though.  Smilies I do care about.  Haven't had one yet though.  I also haven't shot any of UW's stuff to find out.  I will though, it's just not on the list of immediate stuff to do.  I'm concentrating on handloading at this time and saving up for more stuff yet.

And yes, I can say good stuff at the same time as criticize UW.  First, I love it that he makes that loads he does in general.  That's awesome.  On the other hand it would appear he engages in a sloppy load practice.  That's not so good.  If he would load consistently there would be no issue, or at least not anything to question.  You simply don't seem to care, which is fine with me, that's your rightful opinion.  One of these days I'll get some of Underwood's ammo and check it out for myself, looking into the matter further and in more detail.

As I know you're well aware, keep in mind, UW's regular 10mm loads are already beyond what can reasonably be asked for a Delta to handle.  And they are near an upper thresh hold already for the Glock barrels.  Why you are so surprised anyone with a Glock that clearly sees UW's incosistencies wouldn't at least take pause at a 200XTP load that sometimes bounces around 1300fps is beyond me.  You of course don't own a Glock.  Maybe that is why?  I'm not really asking, but rather just saying.

Have we covered this enough yet?  Do you still not understand where on earth I could possibly be coming from?  I really don't get the confusion.  I believe I've explained things quite well and thoroughly, not to mention repeatedly.  If you don't get it at this point, I think I'm done taking the bait unless you have an honest question that hasn't been covered yet.

[The_Shadow]

Cartridges Of The World 5th edition...10mm actually mentioned the 44,400psi in its original article...Post #1
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/10mm-ammo-history/

[Intercooler]

 Honestly I'm fine with all of them until I see some sign regardless of whatever piece of plastic or steel I have in my hand. It's like flinching without needing to.

   So you don't even shoot Underwood. Wow. Yea not worth you getting your feathers ruffled over. I look over the spreads on David's sheet and can't decipher which is the consistent one. Can you highlight it to me? Underwood, DoubleTap, Buffalo Bore, PBR, Armscor, etc... has people that will either choose to shoot their ammo (if they don't reload) or decide not to.

Shadow that link you posted showed a 165 @1300 FPS being full-power in the 600 LB. range. 98% of users agree with that statement and even David Sneed when asked what he considered full-power 10mm he said in the 600 LB. range for the load being shot. We have gotten pretty spoiled!

[REDLINE]

Thanks The_Shadow. 

[4949shooter]

Time will tell.

[The_Shadow]

The velocity limits I see for some manufactures and handloading manuals are not because of pressure limits, but rather that of bullet design performance.  Seeing how 40S&W is the more popular cartridge, most bullets are designed around this platform and velocity for proper performance these days.  But with the "Mighty 10mm" we all think in terms of hot rod performance tring to get the most speed/velocity even when it may not be needed, just for bragging rights I suppose.  But it sure is fun to crank them puppies out just because! 

Whareas in years past the true 10mm designed 200 grain and the 170 grain 10mm were infact designed for 1200 and 1450 respectfully.  Even these parameters can be safely exceeded by the true 10mm performance these days.

In the lighter weight bullets if driven too fast/hard they will roll back past the full open mushroom diameter.  The bonded bullets were made to prevent fragmentation and core seperation.  That has helped to retain more weight even at 10mm velocities, while exceeding the original design parameters.  The commercial boutique loaders are cattering to what is possible and the demand for faster velocity.

They say Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, so I like to demystify the loads by taking them apart, to see what's inside! 

Hornady does show established parameters for their bullet designs for best performances...

So I sort of look at these and consider impact velocities at the range of hunting distances when working up load performance criterior.

Don't take me wrong here, I like the entire spectrum and load my own from mild to wild! 

[sqlbullet]

All the bickering aside about the relative merits of this load, it is a pretty good deal.  These are basically $420/1000.  Components are going to run you $350/1000 by the time you pay haz-mat fees.

[RRMan03]

No ammo manafacture with a brain in his head is going to make a round that will blow up. He would have to be a complete idiot to do that. In todays world of lawsuits if you blow it up the guy will own you ammo business. That is why you do not see loads pushed to the limit except by handloaders. I have not found any factory ammo real factory ammo that I was afraid to shoot.

[4949shooter]

Some of the boutique manufacturers have been having problems. The recent thread of the KB with Swampfox ammo comes to mind.

[pacapcop]

Where can one get a 170 jhp at 1300?

[4949shooter]

Where can one get a 170 jhp at 1300?

I wish I knew.

[P33v3]

I would like to try some PBR ammo. However, I'm not likely to buy any. My issue isn't with the quality (I've heard lots of great things), my issue is with having to first send a copy of my ID. I understand why they do it but I do not like it so I make my choice and do not buy it. In this age of  government wanting more and probably ultimate control over anything regarding firearms any additional sources of how and what I do bothers me. Not slamming the company and I have no hard feelings. Just my choice.

[4949shooter]

I had to do the same thing for Underwood.

[Intercooler]

That's pretty standard for any ammo anywhere. Also if you sell some to someone you better get a copy or you could be behind bars.

[Chicho]

I never had to send in any ID to Underwood... And I'm in NY. Just checked the boxes that it was legal for me to ship and own, which it is for now.