Opinions on Underwood 165 grn Gold Dot vs. Double Tap 155 grn Barnes

[Trailrunner]

Im currently going through the process of choosing a self defense round for my new Glock 29SF. The initial reason for me buying a 10mm was that I wanted a relatively small but powerful pistol to carry while hiking/backpacking but I've so grown to like my 29SF that it may become an EDC. Any opinions or observations on the above ammo that I've recently purchased would be greatly appreciated.

[Dave84]

I would give the nod to the 165 grain gold dot. Anything to do with Barnes seems like its over priced all the time. I actually carry Double tap 165 grain gold dots that I've had for ages. But, if I was to shoot them up I would buy the Underwood version

[sqlbullet]

I always go for heavier, so 165 for me.  Plus, Underwood comes closer to the mark on reaching advertised speed.

Finally, I personally don't see the purpose of lead free rounds for self defense.  Solid copper is longer and takes up case space, meaning less energy at the muzzle.  That is true here too.  Almost 100 ft-lbs less energy at the muzzle, plus Underwood will make their claim, while DT won't.

165 grain all the way.

[Quick 2]

Dave Spalding has a very good article on the SCHP versus the lead core hollow points on his Handgun Combative. The SCHP don't deviate like a lead core can when striking bone at certain angles. Copper being harder than lead doesn't deform like lead but keeps it shape and retains mass better. I know they are twice as high but I'm not target shooting with them but have shot enough to see how they function in my gun. But I still carry Gold Dots, XTP's, and Noslers also. Barnes solid copper bullets have proven that on large game they are are a better bullet. They aren't the magic bullet but they have there place in SD. If it wasn't for the price difference you would see more police agencies using them.

[Rojo27]

Trailrunner,
Think either 165gr Gold Dot loaded by Underwood, Double Tap would make a fine choice for self defense edc.  Also think your on very good ground using 155gr Barnes X-tac loaded by Buffalo Bore or Double Tap.
They're all excellent choices for your edc.  As a matter of fact; when I've carried my 10mm over last 3 years; I've had two mazaines with me: 1 loaded with 155gr Barnes (BB) and 1 loaded with 165gr Gold Dot (UW).

Depending where you like to hike or camp all would be fine.  However, different answer if you hike or camp in bear country.

As purpose is self defense and not range practice; cost is least of my particular concerns.  If you keep eyes open, good deals (sales, free shipping, rebates, etc.) pop up with online retailers regularly.

Good luck.

[sqlbullet]

For those curious, this is the article Quick 2 is referencing:

http://handguncombatives.blogspot.com/2015/04/decision-made-all-copper-hollow-point.html

I went and read it and several others.

Here is my concern, and the reason that while I am swaying, I am unconvinced.

SCHP designs in rifles for hunting perform VERY well.  But, in a 300 Win Mag, 7mm Magnum or even a 30-06/308/270 you have a great deal of velocity budget.  Trading 50-100 fps for a small increase in terminal performance reliability is a good trade.  You gave away something you had plenty of, in exchange for better performance where you needed it.

Autoloading handgun rounds do not have the luxury of an excessive velocity/energy budget.  In fact, they are poor performers requiring multiple hits for reliable stops.  The mantra is your sidearms is for fighting your way to a real gun.  It is also harder to accurately place hits in vital areas with a handgun's short sight radius.

Is the right decision to give up some velocity for more consistent terminal performance, or to sacrifice a small benefit of consistent terminal performance for more velocity and energy when the target is struck?

As the author rightly points out, since LE is not using solids due to cost, we aren't developing a large body of reliable data on which to base decisions.  And hunting doesn't help much since most states have laws that disqualify handguns in common defensive calibers due to lack of energy.  The ones that make the grade are usually the larger magnums and they have energy budget to spare again.

And, on which side of that line does the 10mm fall.  Is it a heavy standard or a light magnum?  Does it have some budget to spare for a more consistent terminal performer?

Personally, I want a 180-200 grain bullet.  At least so far.  In .400 pistol bullets, it appears the sweet spot for copper solids is 155 grain which falls below my preference.  Any heavier and they seriously compromise velocity.  I can't fault anyone who chooses the 155 grain, or 140 grain solids that are out there.

Quick 2 thanks for the response.  I love to be pointed at good data and have the chance to re-think my opinions.  This one definitely has me thinkin....

[Rojo27]

Personally, I want a 180-200 grain bullet.  At least so far.  In .400 pistol bullets, it appears the sweet spot for copper solids is 155 grain which falls below my preference.  Any heavier and they seriously compromise velocity.  I can't fault anyone who chooses the 155 grain, or 140 grain solids that are out there.

The 180-200 grain lead core bullet (bonded or not) preference very understandable as they have mass to spare (or shed) and still have enough remaining to plow through to desired depth.
Monolith bullets have lower density thus more volume than same weight lead core bullet...15% to 20% on average.  Which as referenced makes them "bigger" than same weight lead core.  Unless driven to the point of shearing petals; the monoliths are not going to shed any weight. 

As is the case with rifle hunting bullets; hand gun monolith bullets allow shooter to step down in "weight" and keep same or better terminal performance.

I used to hunt deer and hogs with 150 to 165 grain 308 ammunition however, over the last couple years I've had very good success dropping down to a 130gr Barnes TTX 308 bullet and it's worked like a lighting bolt so far.  Several DRT and nothing gone more than 30 yrds and I've yet to recover a spent bullet.  Dead is dead but as I'm harvesting game to share with my family for consumption, it pleases me to know unnecessary lead hasn't been added to the meat. 

[Quick 2]

When i mentioned the Barnes X Bullets having proved themselves on large game I was not saying that they would do the same out of a handgun. I remember when the Barnes X Bullet came out either late 80's early 90's and everyone taught it would be a fad but it is  still around. Time is what will tell. We have plenty of black bear here where I live and I carry a mag with 180gr FMJ pushed by 10grs of LongShot. But when you are talking about hitting a human with a 155gr SCHP at 1500fps you are talking 775 ft/p of KE and a huge dump of that energy not having to worry about pass throughs. But still having great penetration. I will be 55 this year and my passion has always been firearms. I have been reloading since I was 17. Just saying I have learned that words are cheap and action cost. Time will tell. We have so much more knowledge now on how bullets work and how they don't. If you are a Corbon ammo fan you will see there DXP line has the petals on there SCHP opening back to a 90 degree angle. But did anyone notice the velocities are slower but still have the same penetration?

Look at the 223/5.56 most bullets in gel leave a huge permeate wound cavity but only generate about 10 inches of penetration. Gold Dots with there Solid Copper bullet after expansion penetrates 21 inches in gel. This would be a great Whitetail round. And before anyone starts about gel test it is a apple to apple comparison on how bullets preform not to see what it will do to a human body. I haven't found a gel block I can't out run and I can run anymore. When it comes to ammo I see myself setting on a jury show me the evidence. And from what I have seen so far when it comes to handguns having stopping power and controllability SCHP's have the edge. Yes the Lehigh acting like a boat propeller leaves a larger permeant wound cavity. Even in the second person it goes through. Penetration, permeant wound cavity, hydrostatic shock comes from an expanding bullet in a SD handgun. But opinions are like buttholes everybody has one and some stinks worst than others. I just washed mine. 
I am on here several times a week I just don't post a lot. I am just sharing what i have seen over the few decades I have been chasing my passion. Not saying the SCHP is the magic bullet but so far it living up to it's claims. i haven't went totally to SCHP's for SD but I am headed that way. Kyle Lamb favors the SCHP in the 5.56 and there are a lot of BG's that are no longer roaming the earth because of him and they were put down with FMJ's.

I carry a handgun because I can't conceal an AR.

[The_Shadow]

With states like California and their lead ban, the solid copper designs will continue to be a good choice...
I like the Barnes TAC-XP's and the Lehigh Defense, Cutting Edge and some others are interesting but price plays a significant factor...It is why I invested in the HP bullet molds to cast some in case everything turns to $h!T

[Quick 2]

For SD either of those bullets preform very well. Only for legal reasons I carry factory ammo. I have a FS M&P 9mm that I carry 124+P Gold Dots in. But in my RIA 1911 10mm I carry DoubleTap with the Barnes TAC XP. I live about 20 miles from a cop shop and can get the Gold Dots at LE prices. 50rds is $30. The only 10mm ammo they have is Federal FBI lite loads. Barnes SCHP have the edge in the 10mm if driven to top velocities. i'm not a G Lock fan great guns but I don't like the angle of the grip. The 29 being a subcompact if I can remember right has the 3 1/2" barrel so you are looking at probably 150-200fps slower velocities than advertised. You won't go wrong with either of these bullets, but the SCHP has the edge. There is a lot of BG's   ( Bad Guys )  that are taking a dirt nap because of the Gold Dots.

[Triathloncoach]

Is either round not an outstanding choice?  But I love talking about nuances as much as anyone

[Rojo27]

Is either round not an outstanding choice?

Nope.

As far as commercial offerings go; both will serve you very well! 
I have a magazine of each (one in the batters box and one on deck) on me right now.