Heavier Delta Elite springs required?

[Fulmaduro]

Just bought a new Colt Delta Elite and am going to load some 180gr @ starting load of 8.5gr Longshot. I imagine these will be more powerful than standard factory ammo.

My question is if I need to get a heavier recoil spring if I start experimenting with this load and developing up a bit? I know they come stock with a 23lb double spring kit. I don't plan on going really hot, just max 1250fps or so.

The Wolff website made my head spin around a bit, but looks like if I get a heavier single spring from them I must also get a regular sized guide rod than the "standard" one mounted in the Delta Elite. Any input highly appreciated!

[The_Shadow]

Congrats with the new Colt Delta Elite.  The 1911 styles do have many choices when it comes to springs, some have gotten a extra power main spring and the recoil spring 24 lb.  Also plenty of people are using the "flat bottom firing pin stop" you may want to read some on that.



Be sure to take care with your loading for it as there is a lot of unsupported casing with the rampless Colt chamber design.  That doesn't mean you can't find suitable loads that will work, but you will need to inspect the casings for severe bulging as you approach the higher pressures, with whatever brand casings you load for.

[14 GT-500]

Congrats on the Colt Delta Elite, there a fine pistol and I shoot the heck out of mine. My son came down this past weekend to do the "Flood Run" Motorcycle Rally in WI and MN on Saturday, and then Sunday we both got some trigger time in you want to guess which handgun got shot the most.
On another note I just got a e-mail from UPS letting me know that my 10mm Kimber will be here on Wed Might have to hit the loading bench very soon.

[Fulmaduro]

Thanks Shadow and GT-500 for the feedback.

After reading here and at 1911 Forum it seems like every handgun out there in 10mm is "unsupported" at the chamber. I thought it was the Colt that was better than others, but seems like it is inherent in Glocks too, some even say not to get a Rock Island Armory due it's cast frame.

Reminds me of back in the 80's and 90's when you had to get any 1911 pistolsmithed just to get it to be reliable and feed properly. Sounds like my Delta Elite is going to turn into a money pit too. I think I am just going to load up some ammo and check her out myself!

[sqlbullet]

After reading here and at 1911 Forum it seems like every handgun out there in 10mm is "unsupported" at the chamber. I thought it was the Colt that was better than others, but seems like it is inherent in Glocks too, some even say not to get a Rock Island Armory due it's cast frame.

There is also a bunch of FUD on the boards.  Here is my take, and I think you will find many of the experienced guys will agree.

1.  All autoloading handguns have a recess at the rear where there is some degree of unsupported case head.
2.  It is not an issue except on high pressure cartridges, such as 9mm, 40S&W, 10mm Auto, etc.
3.  Smaller diameter cartridges (9MM) are less susceptible to issues because:
    a.) The smaller diameter case means the unsupported area is smaller.  Significantly so.
    b.) The smaller diameter case is also stronger.
4.  The Colt Delta Elite is far and away the worst offender for lacking critical case head support.
5.  Some people believe the same was/is true for Glocks.  This is not supported by testing of known ammo. 
    a.) The belief came about as a result of some KABOOM's that were widely publicized, and...
    b.) lots of smiled brass from handloaders who were loading at max.
    c.) The issues have not been replicated in controlled testing with carefully prepared ammo, at least of which I am aware.
    d.) Despite an inability to replicate the results, Glock engineered barrels with better support for the Gen 3 and Gen 4 guns.

Cast frame 1911's are not as strong as forged frame 1911's.  No argument.  A cast frame 1911 will probably only stand up to 200,000 rounds of 10mm ammo, where a forged frame 1911 would go twice that.  At that point you will have spent $60,000.00 on ammunition, burned up a half a dozen barrels ($200-$300 each), a couple of slides ($200-$300 each + fitting) and about $1500 worth of springs.  A $200.00 receiver + some fitting, or even the cost of a new gun, seems pretty inconsequential compared to the ammo and parts costs needed wear out a cast frame.  Put a penny in a jar for every time you pull the trigger and you can buy three new Rock Islands when the first frame fails.

Speaking for myself, I doubt I will shoot 300,000 rounds of 10mm in one gun in the rest of my life.  Guys that shoot a lot, tend to own several guns.  That is true for me.  Right now most of my shooting focus in on AR's, which just enough pistol drill to remain proficient.

[dakota1911]

The Wolff 23lb spring uses a normal steel GI guide rod.  I will probably try one down the road.  I ordered a couple extra Delron guide rods and spring sets from Colt while they were still selling them.  I don't shoot real hot loads in my Colt, which is a 1990 Delta Gold Cup as I also have a DW with a ramped barrel.

[Fulmaduro]

sqlbullet, much thanks for the honest down and dirty feedback. That is what Marines like, the truth.

I will be shooting new Starline brass, 8.7Gr Longshot, 180 gr Rainier round nose, CCI 300 primers, virgin brass tomorrow. I will know afterwords what kind of beast my Colt DE is, or isn't. I looked at a loaded round in barrel chamber earlier (barrel out of gun) , and the unsupported area was not near as bad as what I saw in pics on this and other forums. I will pray for the best but plan for the worst.

Even though it has been nearly 20 years since my last reloads I remember the process well and was always a stalwart for safety. Any signs of excessive BS anywhere I know where to turn. Much thanks everybody!

Tony Z

[sqlbullet]

Fulmaduro, you are welcome.

I would add, I am just another guy on the internet.  My moderator title doesn't mean I know more.  I just get to intervene on the mean fights and tell people to play nice.

Those are my opinions and observations, based on lots of time reading.  But they are subject to my own bias as well.

8.7 grains of longshot will not be a problem in your DE.  In fact, I would be really, really, really surprised if a max load of 9.5 grains gave you any issues at all.  In fact, since the Hodgdon load data is for a HP design, and you are shooting a round nose that should be shorter, you could probably exceed max some and still be fine with a 1.260 COAL.  Not saying you should, but theoretically the extra space will reduce pressure a bit.

Always work up, but chances are good your DE is going to handle any load published in a reloading manual.

[TSP45ACP]

I shoot 8.8 of Longshot with a Penn lfp bullet.  Really nice "pop", but nowhere near a max load.  No brass probs and the Colt dual spring guide rod setup works fine, just doesn't last as long as I'd like.  Switched to a Sprinco Recoil Reducing guide rod and a 20-22# recoil spring and haven't had any problems with that either.  Tracy