What is your choice: Follow up shots vs. powerful cartridges?

[Buckeye 50]

In choosing equipment, are you of the belief that follow-up shots trump power, or prefer powerful rounds that have more energy to do more damage (theoretically) - fewer hits, but more damage?


Thanks,


Pat

[14 GT-500]

The other day my wife and I saw a bumper sticker on a pickup that said "I Shoot a .45 because shooting more then once is unnecessary" Could be a lot truth in that.

[tommac919]

Every thing I've seen shows shot placement over caliber ...

I was trained to double tap, till the danger stopped.... so I say the largest caliber you can handle well for an accurate second shot.
( that's why I carry a G20 )

[sqlbullet]

Well, we are all here at the 10mm forum, so clearly we favor powerful cartridges.

That said....

I always practice double taps and Mozambique drills.  I am a big fan of the saying anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice.  And I train myself and others that in defensive shooting there is a balance.  If your groups are bigger than a 9" pie tin, slow down.  If they are smaller than a 5" paper plate, speed up.  In a defensive shoot, you keep shooting until you perceive the threat has stopped or you run out of ammo.

So, since I have effectively answered "Why not both?" to your original query, what is the litmus test of achieving both?

Our old friend the "el presidente".  Run it in 10 seconds or less, or trade down in caliber and try again.  Stop trading down at 9mm.  If you can't run an el presidente in 10 seconds with a 9mm, then start doing three a week range sessions until you break 10 seconds.  9mm ammo is cheap enough that you can afford to improve your skills.

Goes the other way too.  Once you get below 8 seconds, step up in power.  Keep stepping up until you are running 650 ft-lb plus loads.  At which point you are there.

[my_old_glock]

Follow-up shots or powerful cartridge? Why wouldn't someone need to make follow-up shots with a powerful cartridge?

I prefer 9mm with large capacity magazines for most defense situations. For backpacking or camping I prefer 10mm with large capacity magazines.

I practice avoiding a threat.


.

[sqlbullet]

I practice avoiding a threat.

Also, practice helping the threats avoid you.  Eyes up, hands free, make eye contact with people and let them know that YOU know they are there.

Wolves attack the weak, not the ones that show they may fight.

[Blades]

I need to practice the "el presidente"-- a lot. 

[sqlbullet]

I need to practice the "el presidente"-- a lot. 

You and me both.  And I need to start getting my older kids out doing it and other drills as well.

[my_old_glock]

I need to practice the "el presidente"-- a lot. 

What is that.


.

[tommac919]

At set distance...
3 targets with gun loaded with 6 rounds and spare mag with 6 also
face away from targets , hands raised ( I always bend at elbow which is the smart way to be hands up as less movement down )
double tap first, 2nd, 3rd.... reload with mag and double tap back.

Each target should have 4 hits in an 8" circle or Q type FBI coke bottle

[sqlbullet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YzV2qZRLY

[Bruno747]

I love this drill, it great practice, but the slowest part for me is the reload. I have never been very good at that. oddly enough, I can run it faster with a 357 and speed loaders than an auto and mag. Seems weird, but I am a weird guy.

[Mr. AR50]

What's the saying, 'I'd rather be missed with a 44,than hit by a 38.'
I think there's a happy medium between power and the number of rounds available, and as stated in a previous post, we wouldn't be on this forum if we didn't believe that the 10mm was the best cartridge for the job. I seem to remember this subject coming up in some LFI classes I took with Masaad Ayoob about 20 years ago. His answer was something like 'Carry
the most powerful gun/cartridge combo that you can accurately and quickly put shots on target with. This will vary from person to person.' It was good advice then, and it still is, at least for me.

[sqlbullet]

I love this drill, it great practice, but the slowest part for me is the reload. I have never been very good at that. oddly enough, I can run it faster with a 357 and speed loaders than an auto and mag. Seems weird, but I am a weird guy.

First, I think it is fine to "cheat" and run the drill 6-shots, low ready and evaluate, 6 shots.  This assumes you have a gun/magazine combo that you are completely confident in, and that holds at least 12 rounds.  If you run the drill this way, subtract 3-4 seconds from the "expected" times.  So, not over six seconds, step up when you get below four.

But, reloads can and do happen in real world defensive situations, so they should be practiced.

Good news is reload is easy to practice at home while catching up on season 2 of Daredevil!

I am never gonna be as fast as Travis, for a couple of reasons.  A big one is I am not Travis Tomasie.  Another is that his rig is set up to optimize the speed of the reload, where mine is set up to optimize concealment.

None the less, the reason I post the above video is this:  It clearly illustrates Travis practicing NOT at the gun range.  To get as good as he is can you imagine how many hours he spend in his home running this drill.

First, set up your rig.  For most people I know this means buying a mag pouch since they don't already have one. Figure out how to carry that magazine comfortably and accessibly. Before you start practicing the reloads, carry for a week or two to ensure that you aren't going to need to move the mag pouch.  We are going to develop muscle memory, so every minute change down the road will really cause issues.

Start slow.  Practice doesn't make perfect.  Perfect practice makes perfect.  If you practice bad technique 1,000 times, you have developed muscle memory for bad technique.

So, slow, deliberate.  Keep the gun at eye level and bring the magazine to it.  Smooth and consistent, no matter how slow.  Over, and over and over again.  Do it exactly right each time.  Slow and correct is far, far better than fast and wrong.  Once you "get" the basic motions down, start closing each session with 5-10 reloads with your eyes focused elsewhere.  Or closed.  Focus on keeping the gun up at eye level, and letting the muscle memory do the work.  The idea is that the reload is something your body does, like walking or running, while you keep your focus on the larger events around you.  You don't think about walking, or chewing.  An NBA player doesn't think about dribbling.  Their body just does it while they think about other things.

Speed will start to come on it's own.  In a couple of hours you will be surprised at how good you get, let alone a couple weeks of every other night for three episodes of your favorite sit-com.

That is my take.  Now, like getting to the gym, I just need to remember to use my own training advice

[tommac919]

One of the things I see about reloading mags with many guys (when i use to work and at range ) is they're afraid to just let the mag drop... It was for fear the mag might get damaged and unusable. Esp on their new shiny safe queens.

Mags are a item that are meant to be replaced if need be