10mm SOCOM (pic)

[The_Shadow]

Not_A_SEAL, we are an open minded group, that share a 10mm following mostly.  But understand we like to discuss everything 10mm and yes other cartridges and calibers.  This post (10mm SOCOM) started by Tony Rumore who is a respected gunsmith, machinist and design innovator has brought his development concept here knowing we would like to see his work and hear of his progress.  If he wishes to label this one a SOCOM, I think he has that right seeing he is the person who is designing the cartridge based on the original SOCOM cartridge design.

As far as the 458 SOCOM story, it was said that there was a need for a heavy duty round with special purposes, you can read and study that even more here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.458_SOCOM

You mention a lot of various acronyms of which I would have to look up to better understand, but it doesn't lend any credence to the project.   But we do try to maintain a respectable forum here!

[Mongo]

Why not?

Why put a man on the moon?

Why put a diamond on your bride's finger?

Why were parachute pants in fashion for a decade?

Because its part if the human experience.  It's great you seem to have all the answers.  However, even though you may be right, you are wrong because you're not listening.

[drops the mic]

[Not_A_SEAL]

Shadow and Mongo

I am more than familiar with the "458 SOCOM" bedtime story which as I said in my post is essentially BS because it was built based on a discussion with a bunch of guys who had no authority to generate requirements or procure Jack and squat.

But in Tony's defense, OCO money was flowing like water back then and he probably thought he'd get some sole source contract to fulfill a USON or 9 Line and knew zero about the requirements process, the FAR or PEO-SOF. So, he made a business decision, built some guns, handed some out and demo'd a few at some industry days.

But there NEVER was a valid "SOCOM" requirement.

I can tell you that when someone from industry uses the following phrase: "(insert name of unit/agency) came to us and asked us to make (insert their widget's name)"

The truth is that 80% of the time what they SHOULD be saying is; "my cousin's sister's hair dresser's son hung out with me in a bar and said that this is what SOCOM needs"

And for the remaining 20% they should be saying: "(insert name of unit/agency) released an RFI/RFP on FBO and we submitted this for it"

Oh, and in regards to companies that respond to an RFI/RFP and aren't selected. Don't buy the BS story that it's rigged because they're debriefed as to why they weren't.

So, if there's no official SOCOM requirement, why refer to it as such?

If it's for marketing, say so. But also realize that identifying any thing as such is a bit disingenuous because it technically isn't a "SOCOM" or "SOST" cartridge.

And honestly, without that "SOCOM" moniker and associated bedtime story, it would've never been lapped up by the fanboys or made it on those lame tactical shows hosted by former SEALs.

Hopefully my vernacular wasn't beyond Mongo's comprehension and he can grasp that I'm listening but no one has answered.

(Hands Mongo his mic back and pats him on the head)

[Blades]

Soooo, I'm guessing Not_A_Seal isn't buying one? 

[Not_A_SEAL]

Soooo, I'm guessing Not_A_Seal isn't buying one? 

Honestly, I own two 10mm pistols. A Bren Ten and a Sig P220 Match Stainless Elite. The former is a BBQ gun I don't shoot and the later is a BBQ gun I do.

And really, that's what all this "SOCOM" stuff Tony produces is, "BBQ Guns". In reality it's not used by any entity or agency (and no, just because someone in and agency has one doesn't constitute use). The 458 doesn't even have a DODDIC.

Why not call it and all the cartridges he makes "TROMIX"?

[The_Shadow]

Not_A_SEAL, i understand what you are stating, however you come across like you have serious chip on your shoulder.  That may be a subject for another post, instead of killjoy for the development of this project. 

Personally I would like to have Tony share what he might find, the good, bad and the ugly, as he works through the trials and tribulation that comes with development of a new cartridge.

[Not_A_SEAL]

No chip on my shoulder.

But like you, I would love to hear from Tony on why he continues to reference "SOCOM" when he has no reason to do so.

Honestly, he should call it the "10mm TROMIX" and the "458 TROMIX" because after all, by his own admission he primarily builds firearms that "look cool" and are for "recreation"

Sorry but I don't see where SOCOM continues to fit in there.

So why use it?

[Pablo]

And unless your counter argument contains can reference at a minimum a USON, 9 Line that has KSA. KPP and a PSPEC with thresholds and objectives, don't say anything because I'll just embarrass you and you'll be forced to ban me to make yourself feel better.

Nice one buddy!

"Don't say anything." Wow. Loosen up. It's just a name.

It's like you're jealous or something.

[Not_A_SEAL]

No. I'm not jealous. I just want to know why a guy associates his product with an organization that doesn't use it.  Pretty simple.

[Pablo]

No. I'm not jealous. I just want to know why a guy associates his product with an organization that doesn't use it.  Pretty simple.

The answer is simple: He is necking down a 458 SOCOM.

I mean I don't care what he calls it, I like 10 x XXmm names, as in  9x25.

[TonyRumore]

I wasn't the guy that came up with the SOCOM name.  That was Marty ter Weeme.

I simply reused it so guys would know/assume it's based on the .458 SOCOM parent case....that's it..

As for "why" we did it.  I already mentioned that.  We already had the 10mm SOCOM die available in our .375 SOCOM die set, so there was very little cost to just cut one barrel for the hell of it.

Tony Rumore
Tromix

[Pablo]

Tony - keep up the good work. Guys like you keep the firearm industry bright and moving forward. Thanks!

[BEEMER!]

Moderator

Please move this thread over to the whining topic area.

By the way, your screen name gave me an idea for a new name for the cartridge

10mm Not-A-SOCOM

[sqlbullet]

Dang.  I seem to have missed all the fireworks.

Not_A_Seal, marketing is marketing.  I don't think any of us are duped into thinking cobra venom or muscle was used in a Mustang Cobra.  The name was picked because snake names were "cool" in the 60's. 

As to why Tony, Marty, et al chose the name 458 SOCOM for their cartridge is their business.  If you have a beef with how cartridges are named, then get on the board of SAAMI and introduce rules that require people to name cartridges in association with the inventing company or person.  As it stands, SAAMI doesn't have such rules.  Companies and people name cartridges in order to gain market share, pure and simple.

Since the 458 SOCOM is already established, naming wildcats based on said cartridge with a SOCOM designation makes supreme sense.  It alerts truly knowledgeable people to the probably parentage or the round.  What would seem stupid to me would be to name it something different.  In fact, I wish US makers would play nice in this regard.  I have a 260 Remington that has a parent case of 308 Winchester.

Not_A_Seal, whether you can see the chip on your shoulder or not, you have one. You mention you might get "banned" in your second post.  Momma taught me if I didn't have something nice to say to be quiet, unless not talking would hurt someone.

If you have a beef with how Tony names his stuff, too bad.  10mm SOCOM is definitely the right name as it conveys EXACTLY what the cartridge is to anyone that might build an AR.