New EAA Witness 10mm Brass Denting Issues

[ZanderMan]

<sigh>

[ZanderMan]

Shot a few more rounds today, all come out ok but this one....

Finally checked my extractor tension, it was non-existent. Those bad boys are a pain to re-tension! Finally got a decent amount of tension on the casing, hopefully better results next trip out.

[Intercooler]

Oh my! What's up with the gash where it looks like the extractor took a chunk out?

[ZanderMan]

Oh my! What's up with the gash where it looks like the extractor took a chunk out?

yeah I dunno, I think it was mangled by the hood. The other brass that came out didn't have any dents or chips like that. This was the only one that got mangled. Tensioning the extractor should help.

[sqlbullet]

Probably will completely fix your issue.

[ZanderMan]

Probably will completely fix your issue.

Right! And I don't attribute this to "poor RIA quality", more like "I'm new to 1911's and don't know how they work".  This is a great forum!

ETA: Yeah, I know, extractors are on all semi-autos...

[DM1906]

Probably will completely fix your issue.

Right! And I don't attribute this to "poor RIA quality", more like "I'm new to 1911's and don't know how they work".  This is a great forum!

ETA: Yeah, I know, extractors are on all semi-autos...

I disagree with this, entirely. We aren't talking about used cars, here. It makes no difference how familiar a person is with 1911's, or any common firearm design, for that matter. I can accept that all new products with have a generally acceptable rate of failure. That's what warranties are for. I don't know what RIA's actual rate of new-product fail is, but it's apparent (obvious) to me that it's many times that of the industry average. This is unacceptable for a product that is marketed, and most often purchased as, a life-saving defensive product. If a smoke alarm brand had a similar rate of failure, sales would be discontinued immediately. Any common-design firearm that can't be purchased and run through 500 continuous rounds of common ammunition without issue, is a failure. If the rate of failure is excessive and continues beyond what is a reasonable period, then the brand is a failure. RIA pistols purchased today are no more improved than when they were first introduced. A new car brand that requires the buyer to be a mechanic is a failed car brand (history is full of them). RIA, at its current pace, will make its millions and disappear into history, no different than many before it.

[sqlbullet]

DM1906, I don't totally disagree with you, but I do a little bit.

First, RIA is a great option for people (like me) who like to tinker and are fine having a budget platform on which to work and learn.

Second, RIA acts as a price control to better made firearms.  Without RIA, ATI, etc we would see price increase in all tiers of product.

Third, RIA is far, far better made today than it was 20 years ago.  In the 80's and 90's the frames and slides were often so far out of spec they could not be corrected. The guns were not only unreliable, but unfixable.

Fourth, buyer beware.  There is plenty of information out there about what you get when you buy one of these guns.

Fifth, your strawman comparison to a smoke detector is flawed.  There is fundamentally no safe way for me to validate a smoke detector will work when my house is actually on fire.  The same is not true of a handgun.  It is trivial, and indeed a fundamental part of being prepared to defend your person, to go the range and run drills which simulated an engagement.  While such drills may fail to induce the adrenaline surge in you, they work the gun exactly as it will be in the real deal.  Validating the reliability of the gun is step 1, right after getting a gun, step 0.

While RIA does indeed market their product for personal defense, owning a gun, reliable or not, does not prepare you to defend your person.  This goal, being prepared to use deadly force to defend myself and others, is acquired through intensive training on a continual and ongoing basis.  Few people who own and carry a gun regularly have honestly run their gun through a proper series of drills once, let alone on a routine basis.  Even fewer could tell you the last time they had a stoppage, how they cleared it, or which magazine was in the gun at the moment of the stoppage.

So, while your comments resonate on to a degree, if someone is killed or inured because their RIA jammed at an inopportune moment, it will not be solely, or even primarily the fault of RIA and a budget product.  They will be a footnote in a long list of failures.  The first responsible party, and most culpable is the aggressor.  Second is the victim, who failed to train and understand the limitations of the gun on which they were literally betting their life.

[ZanderMan]

This is not my SD handgun, and I will not depend on it as such unless and until it runs reliably. This is a 1911 learning platform for me. If I aspire to a better 1911 platform, I'll either sell the Rock or keep it for range fun. Carrying an XD or Shield for HD/SD as I do now is a much different MOA than a 1911 and I'm no where near the proficiency I need to be to carry a 1911.

I have put thousands of rounds through my carry guns with many different types of ammo and I know what runs best in them. I think I know the criteria for carry.

This is the ONLY problem I've had with the RIA, and I think I'm on the right path to make it run 100%. If you don't like Rocks, don't buy one.

[DM1906]

DM1906, I don't totally disagree with you, but I do a little bit.

First, RIA is a great option for people (like me) who like to tinker and are fine having a budget platform on which to work and learn.

Second, RIA acts as a price control to better made firearms.  Without RIA, ATI, etc we would see price increase in all tiers of product.

Third, RIA is far, far better made today than it was 20 years ago.  In the 80's and 90's the frames and slides were often so far out of spec they could not be corrected. The guns were not only unreliable, but unfixable.

Fourth, buyer beware.  There is plenty of information out there about what you get when you buy one of these guns.

Fifth, your strawman comparison to a smoke detector is flawed.  There is fundamentally no safe way for me to validate a smoke detector will work when my house is actually on fire.  The same is not true of a handgun.  It is trivial, and indeed a fundamental part of being prepared to defend your person, to go the range and run drills which simulated an engagement.  While such drills may fail to induce the adrenaline surge in you, they work the gun exactly as it will be in the real deal.  Validating the reliability of the gun is step 1, right after getting a gun, step 0.

While RIA does indeed market their product for personal defense, owning a gun, reliable or not, does not prepare you to defend your person.  This goal, being prepared to use deadly force to defend myself and others, is acquired through intensive training on a continual and ongoing basis.  Few people who own and carry a gun regularly have honestly run their gun through a proper series of drills once, let alone on a routine basis.  Even fewer could tell you the last time they had a stoppage, how they cleared it, or which magazine was in the gun at the moment of the stoppage.

So, while your comments resonate on to a degree, if someone is killed or inured because their RIA jammed at an inopportune moment, it will not be solely, or even primarily the fault of RIA and a budget product.  They will be a footnote in a long list of failures.  The first responsible party, and most culpable is the aggressor.  Second is the victim, who failed to train and understand the limitations of the gun on which they were literally betting their life.

Marketing strategies and smoke detector aside, I don't disagree with your statements. However, ONLY if all are qualified by the bold statement. The majority of low-budget purchasers are entry level or those with minimal experience. First time buyers make up a large number of those. These folks are unlikely to have, or get, sufficient training and practical exercise, let alone armorer training (an armorer is not a gunsmith, for those who don't know). Often, these buyers purchase a weapon, fire a few rounds of target ammo, purchase a box or two of expensive defensive ammo, then store it at home and wait for "that" moment (the other marketing strategy mentioned earlier). Maybe it will work when it needs to. Maybe not. Defensive handgun use is reported so rarely, and with too few details (the label on the gun is almost never reported), we will never know a remotely accurate statistic. There are plenty of reports of firearm-related assaults and homicide, but the answer we need will almost never be told: "I pulled the trigger and nothing happened, right before I was shot and killed." We don't know why, in almost every case, why an armed defender is shot and killed while never firing a shot. A known-substandard defensive weapon is a deadly weapon, at both ends of it. I have zero tolerance for a product as important as a defensive weapon with such a quality standard. Your firearms knowledge is far above what is average, yet those who are most likely to purchase these are, most often, well below average.

The smoke detector..... I don't think the comparison is flawed, any more than comparing a defensive handgun to any other important safety device. If a smoke detector detects smoke and alarms, it's done its designed duty. They are easy to test, but almost always under ideal, controlled conditions, not unlike firing target rounds at paper, at a range, on a nice day. I have two smoke detectors in my home, and both of them work well and are tested often. They work well as my wife's cooking timer. One alarm is survivable, but two means it's time to order take-out. They are not fire detectors, and nowhere on the label does it say so. Fires usually make smoke, which should be detected. Of course, the same as firearms, there are conditions that render them less effective, or ineffective. If you wear a seatbelt, you may drown if you drive into a lake and can't get it off. Most traffic accidents don't happen in a lake, and unique conditions that make a defensive weapon or smoke detector ineffective, are equally rare. Would you entrust your family's lives on a smoke detector that passed a test "sometimes", or even most of the time? Would you purchase one when customer reviews repeat they work most of the time? If you happen to be a smoke detector expert, and were certain you could make them reliable, you could probably get a bunch of them cheap. What of those folks who don't research smoke detectors and only read the label? Of course, a smoke detector brand that frequently fails, even if it's not most, would certainly be recalled. Unlike firearms, smoke detectors don't have a recreational use. The acceptable failure rate of a recreational-use firearm is determined by the user. If that same weapon has a self defense roll, should that be the same?

[ZanderMan]

Any gun... at any price... can and will have a problem.

I know of Sig Legions that were returned due to problems. Go figure...

Half the fun of gun enthusiasts is understanding your gun well enough to know WHY it has a malfunction. Anybody who expects a firearm to work 100% flawlessly is delusional. Same goes for a car... ANY car...

[sqlbullet]

I guess here is my point, boiling it down.

No one on here is reporting their RIA not to go BANG on the first round in the mag.  They may have a jam, or other issue on the second, but not the first.

If the person buys the RIA from the case having done no research, straps it to his hip in a similarly cheap IWB holster, and then walks around "prepared" to defend themselves, they are going to have a rude  surprise if the odds ever aren't in their favor. They will be doing amazingly well if they, under those circumstances, learn that their gun doesn't feed reliably.  Chances are actually very much that they are never going to get to fire a shot, but will end up ceding they gun and possibly their life to their attacker.

I see two kinds of gun buyers in the training I do.  The ones you are referring to I tell to buy a Glock 19.  The others, well, we go shooting and they start asking the right questions.