Newbie Suggestion for Powder and Primers, Bullets, Etc...

Taterhead · January 20 2016 09:34:44 PM MST

Quote from: Reverendpdp on January 20 2016 03:19:46 PM MST
On the subject of bullets, is there a particular style I want to start with. I'm looking for a style and weight that will give me the greatest accuracy. 180gr? Not sure what the advantages of non-bonded vs. bonded vs. cast are either. Right now I plan to load them in the light to medium power range. Way down the line, when I feel more confident, then I'll explore building a hot load...

Saw this for bullets...
http://www.basspro.com/Berrys-Preferred-Plated-Pistol-Bullets/product/14102905570069/

And this for primers... (#300-LG Pistol)
http://www.basspro.com/CCI-Standard-Primers/product/1202282/

These any good? It seems BPS is the only local place carrying Blue Dot... so I might as well get some other items I need there.

The best accuracy bullet for me has been 180 and 200 gr XTPs with Accurate no. 9, followed closely by Blue Dot. Hornady HAP are the same, except for the perforations that help the mushroom. The heavier bullets with longer bearing surface seem to be best.

I've shot a few thousand Berry's bullets and they are just ok. They need special handling (lots of flair, slow velocities, longer seating, and no crimp) to group worth a darn. They can work, but you won't get anywhere near hot loads without inducing tumbling and other accuracy problem. The issue is that the copper is thin and fragile.

For every day target bullets, I really like Powerbond 180 gr bullets. I get mine locally, but they are priced well at TJConevera.com. Free shipping. They are a plated (bonded) bullet like Berry's except with thicker copper. They are more like a Speer TMJ bonded bullet, and can withstand some 10mm velocity. My G20 favors full-diameter sized bullets, and they are sized 0.400 on the nose. Extremely consistent size and weight. Powerbond calls for using regular FMJ data without the usual limitations to mid-range levels.

I've also used a fair amount of Precision Delta FMJs. They are priced well if bought in bulk. But the 180s tend to be slightly undersized so groups are not as good at the Powerbond. The 200s are sized right.

Lately I've been dabbling with Hi-Tek coated cast bullets. They are getting popular in the action shooting circles. There are a few places to source them, but mine have been from a local producer called Leatherhead bullets. The jury is still out on that one. They have done just fine, but I don't have enough experience to give an endorsement. Testing continues.

CCI 300s are what I use 90% of the time in 10mm. I recommend them.

Reverendpdp · January 21 2016 03:33:24 PM MST

Any preference on bullet shape? Round nose or flat nose?

Taterhead · January 21 2016 04:13:12 PM MST

Things seem to be trending toward round nose flat points. I am unaware of many true round nose jacketed bullets for .400. Truncated cones are an option too. Mostly, I shoot rnfp bullets.

cgreth · January 22 2016 02:35:49 PM MST

Primers
Winchester primers are usually known as being a 'hard' primer. Meaning it takes more impact to set them off. CCI's are usually a 'softer' primer. So they do not require as hard of a strike.
I'm not saying CCI's are more dangerous because they are softer, just the Winchester primers may require a more than normal strike to set them off. I've never had an issue with Winchester primers with my 10's, I've had a occasional problem with my .45's and 9mm's.
So to simplify my life i tend toward large and small CCI primers for my reloading needs.

Powder
I've had good luck with Accurate #7, Power Pistol and Win 231. They all meter well - at least in my Lee with the adjustable charge bar - and I tend to weigh about every 25th round have always come out on the money. I'm currently using Power Pistol for my 10's.

I buy all my powder and primers at the gun shows that occur in my area about every 2 months. I can always beat my LGS's prices and don't have to deal with hazmat fees.

Brass
Starline brass, not nickel. You could look at already fired used brass (and you have no idea how many times it may have been reloaded before it has been sold to you) from some of the online dealers, but after doing some comparisons when I was looking, the used fired brass was being sold for the same amount as the new Starline brass.
My recommendation is to stick with 'brass' brass and not nickel brass. Nickel does look great and cleans up well. And who doesn't like taking pride in the rounds they create? But - at least for me - it tends to split more at the case necks than the normal brass (10mm, .45acp and 9mm). And I use a very light almost non-existent crimp on the final stage of my press. I believe that the nickel is less malleable than normal brass and thus more inclined to crack than to stretch. I reload my brass until it becomes un-reloadable anyway.

cgreth · January 22 2016 02:42:21 PM MST

Oops forgot.

Reloading manuals. Get some. The Hornady and Lyman manuals are good, but are pretty much limited to their bullets. I rely a lot on Lee's Reloading Guide 2nd edition. It has a lot of information for all different bullet weights and styles. I shoot a lot of polymer coated and plated bullets and the Lee book has been the most helpful.

Taterhead · January 22 2016 03:38:54 PM MST

Quote from: cgreth on January 22 2016 02:35:49 PM MST
Primers
Winchester primers are usually known as being a 'hard' primer. Meaning it takes more impact to set them off. CCI's are usually a 'softer' primer. So they do not require as hard of a strike.
I'm not saying CCI's are more dangerous because they are softer, just the Winchester primers may require a more than normal strike to set them off. I've never had an issue with Winchester primers with my 10's, I've had a occasional problem with my .45's and 9mm's.
So to simplify my life i tend toward large and small CCI primers for my reloading needs.

Powder
I've had good luck with Accurate #7, Power Pistol and Win 231. They all meter well - at least in my Lee with the adjustable charge bar - and I tend to weigh about every 25th round have always come out on the money. I'm currently using Power Pistol for my 10's.

I buy all my powder and primers at the gun shows that occur in my area about every 2 months. I can always beat my LGS's prices and don't have to deal with hazmat fees.

Brass
Starline brass, not nickel. You could look at already fired used brass (and you have no idea how many times it may have been reloaded before it has been sold to you) from some of the online dealers, but after doing some comparisons when I was looking, the used fired brass was being sold for the same amount as the new Starline brass.
My recommendation is to stick with 'brass' brass and not nickel brass. Nickel does look great and cleans up well. And who doesn't like taking pride in the rounds they create? But - at least for me - it tends to split more at the case necks than the normal brass (10mm, .45acp and 9mm). And I use a very light almost non-existent crimp on the final stage of my press. I believe that the nickel is less malleable than normal brass and thus more inclined to crack than to stretch. I reload my brass until it becomes un-reloadable anyway.

I agree with your take on brass. In my experience, neck tension has been a pervasive problem with nickel brass if the bullets are undersized (Noslers and Precision Delta come to mind).

I disagree, however, that CCI primers are soft. They are some of the hardest cups in both small and large sizes. Federal being on the soft end (and popular for reduced power striker springs). Winchesters are in between. I like CCI primers in auto loading rifles because they are hard cups.

The_Shadow · January 22 2016 05:25:24 PM MST

Years ago when striker fired pistols first came about the CCI's were way hard and the strikers were not igniting them 100%. It was then that even many primer manufactures including CCI had made the cups slightly softer/thinner to improve ignition reliability back in the day. This drastically changed the amount of pressure they could contain before they would start flattening out.

I have some of the older CCI's and they wouldn't slide into the new Winchester brass but the Winchester primers would slide in very easy. Newer CCI's don't seem to do this after the change over...

Reverendpdp · January 25 2016 02:10:56 PM MST

I managed to get my hands on some Blue Dot as well as some Starfire(?) brass. As far as economical bullets for accuracy, I'm thinking hard cast flat nose 175-180 grain. What do you think of these? Any places that offer these at a good price?
Also I'm hearing a lot about case trimming. Should I be concerned with this right now?

The_Shadow · January 25 2016 03:24:12 PM MST

I have never had to trim a 10mm casing ever! ${$default_shocked_smiley}$ If you wish you can separate them by lengths if you want but that isn't necessary either.

Blue Dot is good to go, 10.2 to 10.4 is a great target load for the cast bullets for the 170-180 grain bullets.

You mentioned Starfire but I think you meant Star Line...That is the good stuff!

Taterhead · January 25 2016 04:44:56 PM MST

There is no need to trim auto loading straight walled cases. In my experience, 10mm cases shrink in length. Cases with a shoulder will, on the other hand, grow with repeated firing and sizing.

sqlbullet · January 25 2016 07:08:52 PM MST

Same. My 10's get shorter each time.

Reverendpdp · January 26 2016 08:48:56 AM MST

Thank you gang for all the responses and outstanding help. I tell you you've gone above and beyond the call of duty and I so appreciate it.
Any suggestions on buying hard cast bullets?

sqlbullet · January 26 2016 09:23:21 AM MST

Buy for fit, not hardness.

Hard bullets (BHN of 16 and above) are rarely called for, and generally won't solve a leading problem.

Slug your barrels, and add .001" to the result. Buy bullets that are that size. This may present a challenge. For my Witness guns that would be bullets that are .4015"-.402". Most commercial bullets are sized .401", which is a bit too small.

If I shoot "hard" commercial cast bullets sized .401" in my witness I get some leading.

If I shoot "hard" home cast bullets sized .402" I get no leading. If I shoot moderate (bhn 10-12) hard bullets sized .401" with light charges of Blue Dot I get leading. If I shoot the same bullets at the same velocity with Unique, I get no leading. If I shoot the same bullets with a full charge of blue dot, no leading.

See, with the full power charge or Unique or Blue Dot, the bullet "bumps up" in size to seal the bore. And sealing the bore is the real trick to no leading.

Most commercially cast bullets are way too hard, and are often undersized for the guns they are fired in.

Taterhead · January 29 2016 11:56:58 AM MST

Quote from: sqlbullet on January 26 2016 09:23:21 AM MST
Buy for fit, not hardness.

Hard bullets (BHN of 16 and above) are rarely called for, and generally won't solve a leading problem.

Slug your barrels, and add .001" to the result. Buy bullets that are that size. This may present a challenge. For my Witness guns that would be bullets that are .4015"-.402". Most commercial bullets are sized .401", which is a bit too small.

If I shoot "hard" commercial cast bullets sized .401" in my witness I get some leading.

If I shoot "hard" home cast bullets sized .402" I get no leading. If I shoot moderate (bhn 10-12) hard bullets sized .401" with light charges of Blue Dot I get leading. If I shoot the same bullets at the same velocity with Unique, I get no leading. If I shoot the same bullets with a full charge of blue dot, no leading.

See, with the full power charge or Unique or Blue Dot, the bullet "bumps up" in size to seal the bore. And sealing the bore is the real trick to no leading.

Most commercially cast bullets are way too hard, and are often undersized for the guns they are fired in.

Nothing to add here, but to say that this is an excellent post!

fasteddie565 · January 29 2016 08:41:57 PM MST

I had back ordered 10k Sellier and Belloit (sp) primers during the great component shortage of 2014 ($20/k). They came in about 10 months later. I have about 2k left. Most all of the 10mm rds I have loaded to date (app 2k) have used the. They are 100% reliable and load well in Lee progressives.

Using Power Pistol for 10mm (as well as 45 GAP) I have some longshot but have yet to give it a try. I range from 7.3 - 7.9 grns of PP for 180 grn bullets.

I have been using Xtreme plated bullets for shooting steel and am just getting started with the Hornady XTP's. The Sierra bullet factory is about 30 min from my house and the offer factory "seconds" that to date have been flawless. Often times they are just hairline scratches in the jacket. They are sold by the pound and offer about a 30% savings (plus no shipping). There is also a starline brass factory (Outlet?) next door. I have yet to visit it yet.

My first lot of brass was new starline unprimed nickel. I have about 4 loads on about 1/2 of it with no issue. I will keep a look out for the neck cracks etc.