NRA refuses to debate Obama

[colt1911fan]

Until there is a plan and the "end game" is clearly portrayed, there will be no step by step compromises. Every instance that the NRA bucks against full background checks (which is a minuscule addition to pretty thorough checks already) or against laws requiring the reporting of known firearm theft it kinda rubs me the wrong way. I'm even ok having to get some worth of psych evaluation and/or basic training before owning a firearm, certainly the latter for before being able to carry. But every time Obama speaks out of one side of the mouth like he respects the 2A and would never confiscate and that everyone creates that fictitious scenario, I get nauseous and react with disgust because I know he does want to get rid of "assault rifles" or any "semi automatic" weapon, has said so before, and perhaps most dishonestly says that we should model the UK or Australia, where they did just that, outlawed firearms almost outright. Don't trust anyone speaking out of all sides of his mouth.

Knowing the latter, I'm not giving an inch, until we see what we can get in return. In exchange for some or all of the above, can we get rid of gun free zones in every instance except where full screening and armed LEO protection is provided for us (e.g. courthouse, some schools, etc...)? Can we get reciprocity across all states? Can I not be presumed a criminal before I am one in terms of where I can possess my firearm in self defense? Can I not have to EVER register all of my firearms with the federal government when I believe that one of the strongest foundations for the 2A is a balance of power with the government and keeping them in check against their abuse of power?

Sorry, this ain't gonna work inch by inch. Too polar a topic, and the fact is, the middle ground is probably possible where we all could be happy AND REAL causes of gun violence might be reduced. But, I'm supporting the NRA until then even when they are a bit ridiculous.

[sqlbullet]

Reading up a bit on this media circus, it sounds like the NRA was right to stand aside.  It sounds like Taya Kyle and Kimberly Corbin scored some good solid points with their questions.

Even better these people are faces and personalities that will resonate better with fence sitters than good ole boy NRA talking heads ever would.

The grassroots opportunity here is with your fence sitter democratic friends.  They need to understand that even if they vote Hillary, they need to send a message loud and clear that they don't want and aren't supporting a mandate for stricter gun laws.

[Wolfie]

I agree no compromises and benefits in return walk away.

The NRA could have came in, and said OK, we will be reasonable and this is what we are willing to do.

If Nurse Ratched gets in she will not give anything back.

[Rojo27]

This NRA should do this and or do that business is rediculous. 
It's exactly the language and "straw man" machiaveilian rhetorical Barry and other Libs use to slander, disparage, malign millions, millions and MILLIONS of honest, law abiding, loyal, tax paying, productive citizens and members of society.  Whose shared crime is LEGALLY organizing and supporting efforts to protect the rights, privileges and freedoms granted us by God & the Bill Of Rights provision of the Constitution. 
The NRA doesn't determine on its own what rights I (we) will sacrifice or trade away.  The NRA is me, you and nearly every other good and honorable citizen following this board along with millions and millions of other like minded people who support the NRA with our finances and votes.  Even those here that repudiate the organization enjoy the fruits of its and our efforts & resources.  No need to look further than the consensus on this particular thread to determine how the NRA will respond to Barry and the Libs.  We will continue to fight and freely trade NONE of our birthright. 
I for one am proud to be a tiny part of the thorn in the side of all who worship at the alter of Government and centralized power and control.  It's the essence of the greatest American tradition as well as reason we enjoy rights and privileges found nowhere else on earth.

[colt1911fan]

This NRA should do this and or do that business is rediculous. 
It's exactly the language and "straw man" machiaveilian rhetorical Barry and other Libs use to slander, disparage, malign millions, millions and MILLIONS of honest, law abiding, loyal, tax paying, productive citizens and members of society.  Whose shared crime is LEGALLY organizing and supporting efforts to protect the rights, privileges and freedoms granted us by God & the Bill Of Rights provision of the Constitution. 
The NRA doesn't determine on its own what rights I (we) will sacrifice or trade away.  The NRA is me, you and nearly every other good and honorable citizen following this board along with millions and millions of other like minded people who support the NRA with our finances and votes.  Even those here that repudiate the organization enjoy the fruits of its and our efforts & resources.  No need to look further than the consensus on this particular thread to determine how the NRA will respond to Barry and the Libs.  We will continue to fight and freely trade NONE of our birthright. 
I for one am proud to be a tiny part of the thorn in the side of all who worship at the alter of Government and centralized power and control.  It's the essence of the greatest American tradition as well as reason we enjoy rights and privileges found nowhere else on earth.

I wasn't exactly thinking of trading away birthrights, only willing to support law that increases responsibility, safety, and accountability (all things we and the NRA claim we are and want to be as gun owners) for freedom to own as many arms and ammunition as I want with as big of magazines as I deem appropriate and to take them with me for my own protection just about wherever I want (e.g. very limited to no gun free zones).

Again, it's almost pointless to mention, as no one will start with this end in mind, so tossing an inch to the other side makes no sense. Country has lost all sense of compromise, while at the same time everyone starts with a political agenda and puts every observation immediately within and behind that agenda regardless of the facts. Miserable.

And, I agree, I'm glad the NRA wasn't there. No one can represent gun rights as well as someone who was raped or who lost a husband to gun violence. They done well. Darned well. Obama was completely and offensively dishonest to them.

[redbaron007]

Until there is a plan and the "end game" is clearly portrayed, there will be no step by step compromises. Every instance that the NRA bucks against full background checks (which is a minuscule addition to pretty thorough checks already) or against laws requiring the reporting of known firearm theft it kinda rubs me the wrong way. I'm even ok having to get some worth of psych evaluation and/or basic training before owning a firearm, certainly the latter for before being able to carry. But every time Obama speaks out of one side of the mouth like he respects the 2A and would never confiscate and that everyone creates that fictitious scenario, I get nauseous and react with disgust because I know he does want to get rid of "assault rifles" or any "semi automatic" weapon, has said so before, and perhaps most dishonestly says that we should model the UK or Australia, where they did just that, outlawed firearms almost outright. Don't trust anyone speaking out of all sides of his mouth.

Knowing the latter, I'm not giving an inch, until we see what we can get in return. In exchange for some or all of the above, can we get rid of gun free zones in every instance except where full screening and armed LEO protection is provided for us (e.g. courthouse, some schools, etc...)? Can we get reciprocity across all states? Can I not be presumed a criminal before I am one in terms of where I can possess my firearm in self defense? Can I not have to EVER register all of my firearms with the federal government when I believe that one of the strongest foundations for the 2A is a balance of power with the government and keeping them in check against their abuse of power?

Sorry, this ain't gonna work inch by inch. Too polar a topic, and the fact is, the middle ground is probably possible where we all could be happy AND REAL causes of gun violence might be reduced. But, I'm supporting the NRA until then even when they are a bit ridiculous.

No offense......but suggesting more background checks, basic training and psych evaluation to purchase a firearm is not a supporter of the 2nd Amendment and personal freedoms.

Unfortunately, it stances like this that encourage the liberals even more. If King Obama heard this, he'd promote you to Secretary of Gun Confiscation.   

Respectfully, you don't sound like a supporter, but want to portray yourself as one.....similar to King Obama.

[10-4]

The NRA should continue to spend its time in the courts, fighting unconstitutional regulations and kings who try to rule by fiat.  The CNN anti-gun show was a sham.  We don't need any more laws or regulations.  99.9% of all firearms are not used in a crime.  We are the most law-abiding segment of society, right along with those holding a permit to carry concealed.  Enforce existing laws.

Obama is so proud to state that background checks have stopped 1.8 million attempts to purchase a firearm.  Where the heck are the 1.8 million arrests?  Enforce the laws or get rid of them!

My guns don't cause crime.  I don't know anyone who has used a gun to commit a crime, and I'll bet neither do any of you.  We don't need mandatory psychological evaluation or mandatory training.  The Constitution says nothing about mandatory training or psychological evaluation (or even background checks for that matter). 

Unfortunately we live in a violent society.  We need more people with guns, not fewer people with guns.

[Charlie_Zulu]

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/211321-poll-most-gun-owners-support-universal-background-checks 92% for background checks

67% for Obamas executive action.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/07/politics/poll-obama-gun-action/index.html

We are going to get nothing in return. The NRA could have debated him and said lets negotiate this for that, they did nothing.

How then would you explain this CNN poll?



As far as the NRA not showing up to a CNN "Town Hall"... shouldn't take a genius to understand the reasoning behind that decision.

[Charlie_Zulu]

67% for Obamas executive action.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/07/politics/poll-obama-gun-action/index.html

We are going to get nothing in return. The NRA could have debated him and said lets negotiate this for that, they did nothing.

LOL!!!

Let's really get into the weeds with that poll:

Q1)  Policies proposed by Obama, right direction or wrong direction – 57% wrong direction

Q2) Approve or disapprove of the way Obama is handling gun policy – 53% disapprove

You mentioned.....
Q3) A complete joke of a question for polling.  Reminds me of a run-on sentence.  Too many issues cited to get the correct response.  Do I want a change in background check laws, NO.  Do I want to make it easier for the FBI to do background checks, YES (example - my friend went to buy his son his 1st shotgun for Christmas.  The purchase was held up for 3 days... "delayed" after background check... before he could take it from the store.  No reason for the delay). 

Q4) Do you think the changes will make a difference in reducing gun deaths – 57% will not be effective

Q5) Do you favor EO for the changes – 54% oppose

Q6) Has Obama gone too far, right amount, not far enough to change gun laws – 38% gone to far, 31% right amount, 30% not far enough.  I'll take that as 69% believe he's already done enough... Please, sir, STOP ALREADY!

D22) Does anyone in your household own a gun – 40% yes, 51% no.   Get the above numbers despite that slant?  That's not a good poll for the Anti's. 

[sqlbullet]

Yeah, every poll I see clearly shows the America doesn't believe gun control is the answer to our violence problems.

But, from a grass roots level, we can influence a couple of those numbers.  Find a 30%'er that thinks we haven't gone far enough.  engage them with facts about why gun control won't help violence, and diverts resources from places that will.

Find a 51%'er that doesn't own a gun and take them shooting.  Help them find fun in it.  One or two of them will buy a gun.

Find a 31%'er that thinks it is the "right amount" and explain the legal quagmire by which you can become a felon depending on how you hold your sig brace equipped AR pistol. Help them understand that the rules are arbitrary and irrational.

[Wolfie]

You need more cops to enforce the 1.8 million that attempted to buy guns. Just like you need more border cops. Congress needs to allocate the resources to enforce the law.

[Wolfie]

Two-thirds of Americans support President Obama's initiative, announced this week, that would increase the reach of federal criminal background checks for those purchasing firearms at gun shows or on-line, according to a new national CNN/Opinion Research poll.

The president's bid to close the "gun show loophole" is backed by a 67-32 percent margin, although only 41 percent of those polled believe it will serve to reduce the scourge of gun violence in America.

[10-4]

There's no such thing as a "Gun Show Loophole".  Whenever you hear that term they're insulting your intelligence.

[sqlbullet]

Also, they didn't extend any reach.  No new rules have been announced.  They have just increased attention to the existing rules.  More sellers will fall under scrutiny to ensure they aren't violating existing laws.

[Rojo27]

Two-thirds of Americans support President Obama's initiative, announced this week, that would increase the reach of federal criminal background checks for those purchasing firearms at gun shows or on-line, according to a new national CNN/Opinion Research poll.

The president's bid to close the "gun show loophole" is backed by a 67-32 percent margin, although only 41 percent of those polled believe it will serve to reduce the scourge of gun violence in America.

You're just a one trick pony...  You appear to continue to cling to that narrative (as it seems to fit your ideological persuasion) in spite of the fact the complete poll you cherry pick from again doesn't support the point your desperately trying to make.    Based on polling data from this and several others polls done last week - Barry's EO and WH/CNN publicity circus stunt achieved very, very little.  So great, hope they do try and use it in coming election.

Done