Why is it when someone speaks against the "conventional custom" they're derided?

[Captain O]

You are more than welcome to not celebrate the birth. However, for you to say other shouldn't is now just your opinion and like arm pits, everyone has a couple and most stink. 

I never claimed anyone shouldn't celebrate as they feel. I do feel opposed to sociocultural "strong arm tactics" that have been commercially foisted upon society. This is little more than emotional manipulation. I got over it years ago, but people like to engage in forcing others to bow to their will.

This happens on an annual basis.

Dude, that's life.....many want to control others; just like you are trying to control socialcutlure activities.

I don't know this "Dude" of whom you speak. There's nothing wrong with capitalism. Turning a profit is fine, but I don't think the name of God should be made profane in a similar manner when Jesus cleared the temple. No, turning a profit in the name of Jesus' is repugnant.

But it happens every year.

To clarify, "dude" in this case is referencing you; but to be respectful, something I was amiss earlier,  I'll refer to you as Mr. Dude or Captain O...whichever fits my feelings at the time. 

Again, your predisposition for the celebration of Christ's birth is causing your frustration. With this said, you should be irate about every religious holiday; for the culture/society, it's all about money. It's always been about the money. Since the beginning of time, many have used these events to capitalize on gaining more money/gold/furs/water etc.

I never celebrate any holiday as a commercial observation. It's about faith, not money. Your language skills reflect those of an 18-20 year old "man-child". It is evident that you have no respect for those that attempt to honor the Almighty God in a respectful manner.

Be advised; It is written: God is not mocked. This disrespect will not go unnoticed. I respect other views, obviously you do not, and have little more than a cash box in place of your soul. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes.

Good luck... (You'll need it)!

[DM1906]

Politics and religion. There's a very good reason they don't belong in bars, and the same applies to most (non political/religious) discussion forums. The direction and result is usually predictable. So far, one member (that I know of) was booted from here for extremism, outside the scope of this place, which we are all visitors. I've removed several users from my forums for similar reasons. This site is still young, it will happen to others in time.

As far as this (off) topic is concerned, and as already pointed out, it is all about opinion. Your opinion and my opinion. Your truth and my truth. You may see my truth as opinion, and I may see your truth as opinion. Perception is reality, but that reality is only truth from your perception. People will either agree or disagree, or agree to disagree, and continue or cease a discussion. Persuasion is required to sell snake oil. If persuasion is required to sell your truth, it is only truth to you.

If you prefer to celebrate Christmas in July, you are free to do so. There is certainly a lot less commercialization (which I dislike greatly) to offend you. I feel the "reason for the season", as it were, has been commercialized into oblivion. The celebration has become a personal one for many groups and individuals, whatever their motives. Family values are being stripped from this country, one small piece at a time. Destroying the message, and the messenger, is necessary to accomplish that. It doesn't matter if you believe or not. History indicates that the message, even to non-believers, has been a rudder. The country is becoming more and more rudder-less, and I believe it is by design. That's my opinion, BTW.

In regards to the "evil" god, who would allow such hateful acts, disease, and disaster, it is all necessary, absolutely. If you do not believe in a creator, it is still necessary. We cannot truly know prosperity, never knowing destitution; never know light without dark; never know wellness without illness; never know absolute good without knowing absolute evil; and we cannot appreciate life without knowing death. These MUST be experienced. They cannot be taught. We cannot miss something we've never had, and we don't know what we don't know. For eons, it is said, people believed the Earth to be flat. I don't believe they did. The Earth was the Earth, it wasn't flat, or anything, until someone suggested it was other than what it appeared. Before that moment, the Earth had no "shape". No one discussed it (openly, that we know of), because to them, the topic didn't exist. The reality is, before you can have any notion of an assertion, you must have an opposition. This is rule (law), not opinion or theory.

[Captain O]

Politics and religion. There's a very good reason they don't belong in bars, and the same applies to most (non political/religious) discussion forums. The direction and result is usually predictable. So far, one member (that I know of) was booted from here for extremism, outside the scope of this place, which we are all visitors. I've removed several users from my forums for similar reasons. This site is still young, it will happen to others in time.

As far as this (off) topic is concerned, and as already pointed out, it is all about opinion. Your opinion and my opinion. Your truth and my truth. You may see my truth as opinion, and I may see your truth as opinion. Perception is reality, but that reality is only truth from your perception. People will either agree or disagree, or agree to disagree, and continue or cease a discussion. Persuasion is required to sell snake oil. If persuasion is required to sell your truth, it is only truth to you.

If you prefer to celebrate Christmas in July, you are free to do so. There is certainly a lot less commercialization (which I dislike greatly) to offend you. I feel the "reason for the season", as it were, has been commercialized into oblivion. The celebration has become a personal one for many groups and individuals, whatever their motives. Family values are being stripped from this country, one small piece at a time. Destroying the message, and the messenger, is necessary to accomplish that. It doesn't matter if you believe or not. History indicates that the message, even to non-believers, has been a rudder. The country is becoming more and more rudder-less, and I believe it is by design. That's my opinion, BTW.

In regards to the "evil" god, who would allow such hateful acts, disease, and disaster, it is all necessary, absolutely. If you do not believe in a creator, it is still necessary. We cannot truly know prosperity, never knowing destitution; never know light without dark; never know wellness without illness; never know absolute good without knowing absolute evil; and we cannot appreciate life without knowing death. These MUST be experienced. They cannot be taught. We cannot miss something we've never had, and we don't know what we don't know. For eons, it is said, people believed the Earth to be flat. I don't believe they did. The Earth was the Earth, it wasn't flat, or anything, until someone suggested it was other than what it appeared. Before that moment, the Earth had no "shape". No one discussed it (openly, that we know of), because to them, the topic didn't exist. The reality is, before you can have any notion of an assertion, you must have an opposition. This is rule (law), not opinion or theory.

I simply try to return to a "pure" observance. I respect other faiths, and most observances. I will not debase worshiping Him by reducing it to what can be accomplished through mammon. I have no intention of offending anyone, but on the other hand, I simply ask that my beliefs (and efforts) are so respected.

Enough said.

[gandog56]

Well, I have no problem celebrating Christ's birth. The only problem is it almost certainly did not happen in December. Shepherds would NOT be out in the fields then. The old church just decided to take over a pagan holiday so that the pagans would still have a cause to celebrate on the same day, but would get steered to the church to celebrate.

[Captain O]

The trees: Thane Pagan worship.

Yule logs: More Pagan worship.

The exchanging of gifts: Solicitation of greed, and the inciting of greed in small children. (This is what does the most emotional/psychological damage.

What I find more important is the execution (for a crime He hadn't committed), and His ultimate resurrection as our Lord and Savior. These are the true source of our salvation. How many other "holy men" are still in their graves? Wait, that would be all of them!

His Divinity and rising from the dead is evidence enough for me. This is what truly matters.

[inv136]

The trees: Thane Pagan worship.

Yule logs: More Pagan worship.

The exchanging of gifts: Solicitation of greed, and the inciting of greed in small children. (This is what does the most emotional/psychological damage.

What I find more important is the execution (for a crime He hadn't committed), and His ultimate resurrection as our Lord and Savior. These are the true source of our salvation. How many other "holy men" are still in their graves? Wait, that would be all of them!

His Divinity and rising from the dead is evidence enough for me. This is what truly matters.

I have no issue with anything you wrote. But, Jesus was not just a "Holy Man." He was the son of God. Big difference there. And, if I remember correctly, Jesus asked for his disciples to commemorate his death, not, celebrate his birth. While I don't celebrate Constantine's pagan modification called Christmas, I do give family members gifts just as a family tradition which benefits the kids. They can change the date and name it something else and I merely do it for the kids.

[gandog56]

Now, on the commercial side......

...............I hate how now as soon as the Halloween stuff is put away out comes the Xmas crap. At least they USED to wait until Thanksgiving.

[Captain O]

The trees: Thane Pagan worship.

Yule logs: More Pagan worship.

The exchanging of gifts: Solicitation of greed, and the inciting of greed in small children. (This is what does the most emotional/psychological damage).

What I find more important is the execution (for a crime He hadn't committed), and His ultimate resurrection as our Lord and Savior. These are the true source of our salvation. How many other "holy men" are still in their graves? Wait, that would be all of them!

His Divinity and rising from the dead is evidence enough for me. This is what truly matters.

I have no issue with anything you wrote. But, Jesus was not just a "Holy Man." He was the son of God. Big difference there. And, if I remember correctly, Jesus asked for his disciples to commemorate his death, not, celebrate his birth. While I don't celebrate Constantine's pagan modification called Christmas, I do give family members gifts just as a family tradition which benefits the kids. They can change the date and name it something else and I merely do it for the kids.

Sadly, our society uses the occasion to "line it's pockets" while also "buying the affections" of people. This is the pernicious invasion of the commercial aspect of the celebration. 

[sqlbullet]

There are plenty of good motivations and bad motivations in the world.  I can only judge inwardly as mine is the only heart I truly know.

I give gifts to my family members as a way of conveying my love and respect to them.  I gladly accept the pagan influences in the Christmas celebration because the inclusion of those influences was the means of bringing the light of Christ to those pagan cultures.  Seems like part of the Saviors message was about accepting goodness wherever it was found.

[my_old_glock]

http://www.truthbeknown.com/


Everything in the Bible is copied from some earlier fable/myth.


.

[gandog56]

I went to the local Walmart Christmas Eve to get a Dairy Queen gift certificate to stick in my Mom's stocking. (She loves peanut parfaits). They were already taking down the Christmas candy and putting in the Valentine's day candy.

[Vice]

I went to the local Walmart Christmas Eve to get a Dairy Queen gift certificate to stick in my Mom's stocking. (She loves peanut parfaits). They were already taking down the Christmas candy and putting in the Valentine's day candy.

No one can accuse Walmart of being late in the game as far as Holiday's are concerned.  This year my local Walmarts had Christmas stuff out before Halloween. 

[The_Shadow]

Here the Wal-Mart quit doing price matching of the other local stores sale ads...they are also deleting many name brand products in favor, and pushing the Great Value brand.  Therefore I cross town now to shop some of the other stores more often.
Wal Mart has gotten too big for its own good...

[sqlbullet]

We don't do wal-mart before 6:00 AM or after 10:00 AM.  Magic window when there are no crazies there.  And we don't buy much there anymore either.  Costco for consumables, and Target for anything we need in small qty.

[my_old_glock]

I went to the local Walmart Christmas Eve to get a Dairy Queen gift certificate to stick in my Mom's stocking. (She loves peanut parfaits). They were already taking down the Christmas candy and putting in the Valentine's day candy.

No one can accuse Walmart of being late in the game as far as Holiday's are concerned.  This year my local Walmarts had Christmas stuff out before Halloween. 

One time the local Walmart had Christmas stuff out at the same time as the back-to-school stuff was out. Yes that was before Halloween. Now they put it out after Halloween.