Three Common .40S&W 180gr FMJ loads

[RDub01]

Smith & Wesson Sigma 40F
Groups fired from 25 yards off sandbags
Velocities taken with an Oehler Mod 33
Circles are 5½"


Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture:  Federal   American Eagle
Muzzle Velocity:  1030      
Muzzle Energy:  424
Brass Make/Headstamp: Federal
Bullet Make/Weight/Contruction/Info:  FMJ
Actual Weight:  181grs
C.O.A.L.:  1.124"
Primer:  Sm Pistol
Case: .40 S&W
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight:  5.3grs  Unknown
Actual Velocity:  997fps @ 46°F













Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture:  Remington  UMC   
Muzzle Velocity:  990fps
Muzzle Energy:  392 Ft/lbs.
Brass Make/Headstamp:  Remington   
Bullet Make/Weight/Contruction/Info:  FMJ
Actual Weight:  179grs
C.O.A.L.:  1.127"
Primer:  Sm Pistol
Case:  .40 S&W
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight:  4.9grs. unknown
Actual Velocity:  970fps @ 47°F











Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture:  Federal
Muzzle Velocity:  1000fps
Muzzle Energy:  400 ft./lbs.
Brass Make/Headstamp:  Federal
Bullet Make/Weight/Contruction/Info:  FMJ
Actual Weight:  180.6grs
C.O.A.L.:  1.125"
Primer:  Sm Pistol
Case: .40 S&W
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight:  5.4grs  Unknown
Actual Velocity:   986fps @ 57°F












The main reason I posted these is to ask what powder is used in these 180gr loads..  The powder charge in all of these are very similar, and I'm wondering if it isn't the same thing, or close to it.

Two of the three shot very nice groups.. Using 4.9 to 5.3grs of something.  Not sure what happened to the Federal load..  I haven't been able to get groups like these with any of the fast burning powders that I've tried yet...  I can with Power Pistol or Longshot, but those take 7-8grs.

Just started working on the 180gr loads, so I haven't spent a lot of time with them in the .40. 

So I was wondering what you all load and what you think about this..

Thanks

[fltbed]

Not sure what powder their using.

My "go to"  40 powder for factory duplication type loads has always been WSF.  Burnt up a lot of that stuff back in the 90's shooting USPSA under the old Power Factor.

Jeff

[RDub01]

Hey Jeff
Never used WSF.. Seen a lot of data for it over the years. I'd like to see what worked for you..

Randy

[The_Shadow]

Hello RDub here are my thoughts...Nice work by the way!

The Federal American Eagle 180 FMJ with 5.3 grains looks like 231/HP38  (Hodgdon shows 180XTP 5.0 grains @ 947 fps 32,900 PSI)  (Hodgdon shows 180 Berry FP 5. grains @ 984 fps 33,500 PSI)

The Remington UMC 180 MC with 4.9 grains looks like 231/HP38 (Hodgdon shows 180XTP 5.0 grains @ 947 fps 32,900 PSI) (Hodgdon shows 180 Berry FP 5. grains @ 984 fps 33,500 PSI)

The Federal Premium 180 FMJ FN with 5.4 grains looks like WSF  (Hodgdon shows 180XTP 5.4 grains @ 946 fps 28,000 PSI)

[RDub01]

Hey Shadow
Hmm.      I've tried that combination with 231 and two different FMJ bullets and can't get good groups.   
Last time out I got 988fps with 5.5grs 231 with a Speer TMJ, WSP primer.
I'll keep playin around with it..

Gonna see if I can score some WSF somewhere.  Thanks

[The_Shadow]

If you are looking for best accuracy try Blue Dot...I like 8.5 grains under the 180's have taken up to 8.8 but for target play 8.5 is good to go!

[RDub01]

Yes BD is excellent in this application.. Especially with cast bullets.  Also finding N350 quite good with 180's.
The goal was to find a load using the same amount of powder the factory does and still get the performance of the factory loads.
My contention is, the factory is using some propellant that is not available to us.  Can't be dogmatic about this as yet, but that's what I'm thinking..

Found some WSF online..

[fltbed]

Hey Jeff
Never used WSF.. Seen a lot of data for it over the years. I'd like to see what worked for you..

Randy

This was worked up in a custom Para framed 1911 limited division gun with a 5" Bar-Sto barrel so the velocities were a little higher than what you would see out of a standard 4" service gun.

40 S&W
180 gr Montana Gold FMJ
Win brass
Win small pistol primer
OAL 1.140
WSF powder
5.6 gr - 982 f.p.s.
5.8 gr - 1002 f.p.s.  this load was very clean burning and accurate in my gun and was what I shot till the Power Factor was lowered.

WSF also works well in 9mm and even 10mm for lighter target type loads.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

[RDub01]

Thanks Jeff.. 
Looking forward to working with WSF when it arrives..

[10mmGarand]

I've had a pound of WSF forever and finally loaded some .40 S&W with it the other day.

180 grain hard cast lead FP
5.5 grains WSF
Remington brass
CCI 500
OAL 1.125
Taper crimp diameter .420-421

This is a starting load per Hodgdon with a 180 gr Berry's plated bullet.

I'm gonna try them in my GEN3 20 w/ KKM .40 conversion barrel & 20lb wolff recoil spring this weekend.

[DM1906]

I've had a pound of WSF forever and finally loaded some .40 S&W with it the other day.

180 grain hard cast lead FP
5.5 grains WSF
Remington brass
CCI 500
OAL 1.125
Taper crimp diameter .420-421

This is a starting load per Hodgdon with a 180 gr Berry's plated bullet.

I'm gonna try them in my GEN3 20 w/ KKM .40 conversion barrel & 20lb wolff recoil spring this weekend.

I like WSF for .40 and .45 target loads. Clean, reliable, and easy to duplicate factory defense round feel and accuracy. You're probably over-sprung, though. If you run into feed or ejection (damaged case) issues, try the OEM 17# RSA. 6.0 gr. WSF with my 180 gr. TC hard cast (1.125" and slight taper crimp) run about 1060 FPS in a 4.5" barrel (Sigma).

[10mmGarand]

I will have my OEM 17 lb spring handy, but doubt I'll need it. Factory ammo like pulled down here function fine and eject brass 5-6 feet.
Do you think WSF is a better choice for .40 lead than Power Pistol?

[DM1906]

I will have my OEM 17 lb spring handy, but doubt I'll need it. Factory ammo like pulled down here function fine and eject brass 5-6 feet.
Do you think WSF is a better choice for .40 lead than Power Pistol?

I would say it's a matter of personal preference and/or availability. A coin toss, IMO. They meter equally well and charges aren't too small for higher pressure loads. WSF charges are roughly 10% less (all else being equal), so it may have an economical edge in higher volume, although PP is usually a little less expensive where I buy. WSF is (very) slightly cleaner at similar velocities, but is (very) slightly more smoky in colder temps. None of the differences are enough to swing a bias, but notable.

[10mmGarand]

I've had a pound of WSF forever and finally loaded some .40 S&W with it the other day.

180 grain hard cast lead FP
5.5 grains WSF
Remington brass
CCI 500
OAL 1.125
Taper crimp diameter .420-421

This is a starting load per Hodgdon with a 180 gr Berry's plated bullet.

I'm gonna try them in my GEN3 20 w/ KKM .40 conversion barrel & 20lb wolff recoil spring this weekend.

This past weekend I couldn't get to the range, but I stopped on my way to work this morning.

I only shot at 7 yards but dumped 30 rounds ( 2 full magazines) in approx. 2"-2.5", with me shooting faster than I should have been.

All rounds fed and functioned fine and the brass landed about 18" from my right foot.

This was at absolute first light, and there was absolutely no muzzle flash. I was very surprised. A Power Pistol load would have looked like a flamethrower!

[fltbed]

This was at absolute first light, and there was absolutely no muzzle flash. I was very surprised. A Power Pistol load would have looked like a flamethrower!

I sometimes shoot dark house stages and even an occasional night match.
For those, even WSF has too much muzzle flash.  That's why I use WST in all my "gaming loads"  I've lost count of how many RO's and squad mates ask me what powder I run cause their's absolutely no muzzle flash at all with WST.

Jeff