G20SF Keyholing!

[sqlbullet]

Breaking the ¢10 barrier is going to be a cast bullet, probably powder coated to feed a Glock.

I am back to thinking a bottle of Harbor Freight red and tumble and bake solves your issue pretty easily.

[jazzsax8]

Thanks to ALL for your input!  I just spent a couple of hours wandering through the net and now have enough information to be dangerous.
PCFlorida- Thanks for the recommendation but I did find them at Brassman for only $110 that includes delivery but these are 180gr and I am trying to stick with a 200 exclusively for this pistol for woods carry/penetration. 

Roze Distribution has Zero brand in the 200gr and seems to be the least expensive in jacketed at $126.65 delivered and comes in the desired weight I want to shoot.  Would like a wider meplat but did not find anything jacketed with it.  This brand seems to have a good following of happy shooters.

sqlbullet- I am still open to getting some Red but again even if it makes them usable would not continue to go through the effort to continue to coat the X-treme bullets even if it worked.  You do have to pick these out one at a time and put them in the oven!  I am thinking that a used LWD barrel for about $80 would help me get rid of the 1500 bullets then sell it for $80 when I am done.  Again the X-tremes in my G29 KKM and LWD were super accurate with no key-holing so I know this would work.  Trying to sell them locally at a 20% loss is also a good solution requiring the least amount of wiggling.

I am not against using a powder coated bullet at 200grs for .10 or less that is accurate but think the Zero brand might be the best solution to the problem.

I would still like to hear from anyone using the X-treme 200 or 220's in the stock barrel with accuracy.  I started well below max using 8.4grs of Longshot that still produced 1120fps.  Backing the load down 50-75 fps might just make them usable and will try this next.  Should I try 800X or CFE pistol instead?  Will also try my 200gr XTP's to make sure there is not another problem to diagnose beyond groove diameter/bullet fit.

[sqlbullet]

There is a thread on it here as well as lots of info on the cast bullets forum.

Short version is put 25-30 of them in a tupperware, add a couple teaspoons of powder coat and "swirl" them.  Using tweezers, set them up on some metal screen or hardware cloth and bake them.

[Benchrst]

PCin' lead is pretty straightforward, and doesn't require a significant investment - It's just not realistic for volume shooters.

http://www.webcity.net/benchrest/powdercoating/powder_coating.htm

[jazzsax8]

What is a good time estimate to handle 1500, 500 of which are lead with blue lube in the groove?

[Benchrst]

I haven't tried coating lubed bullets, but I can't imagine the best results (lube would likely melt (400deg bake) before powder solidified).

I have, however, removed the lube from bullets by soaking them in white gas (about 30 min), stirring, and then thoroughly rinsing with hot water - the end result was the same as coating bare lead.

In terms of production with a toaster oven (DON'T USE ANYTHING YOU USE FOR COOKING), I'd guess a production rate of 250 per hour.

[sqlbullet]

The lube will have to be removed as Benchrst indicates.  White gas, mineral spirits, etc will take it out pretty easy.

[The_Shadow]

Acetone as a final cleaning will be beneficial as a final rinse to remove all oils or lube residue.

[Pumpkinheaver]

I guess I got lucky my Gen4 has shot well with just about everything I have run through it. 165 and 180gr plated, several 155 and 180 jacketed and my 180 powder coated. It does not like the same 180 cast bullet with conventional bullet lube.

[jazzsax8]

I guess I got lucky my Gen4 has shot well with just about everything I have run through it. 165 and 180gr plated, several 155 and 180 jacketed and my 180 powder coated. It does not like the same 180 cast bullet with conventional bullet lube.

Would you have some specific load data for the 180's with group measurements?

[fltbed]

Just picked up a nice G20SF that had less than 300 rounds through it.  Stock RSA and barrel.  First trip to the range with some of my tried and true loads of 9.0 Longshot with the X-Treme 200gr bullet.  In this new pistol I worked up test loads starting at 8.4, 8.6, 8.8 and 8.9 before trying the 9.0gr that had been max in some other aftermarket barrels in my G29SF.

Now the bad news.  ALL of the groups were keyholing at 20 yards producing average groups from 15 to 17".  I had only shot this bullet/powder through aftermarket barrels where it was tough to get a group larger than 3" 5 shots at 25 yards.  Some went as small as 1 7/8"!  Its almost like this factory barrel will not be made to work with this plated bullet using any combination of powders etc.  I use all of the loading tricks learned on this site (thanks much as I was only a heavy crimping revolver loader before getting the 10mm Glocks a year ago).

I do have some Berrys 180's, X-Treme 220's and XTP's in 200gr to try before I give up and buy another aftermarket barrel.  I also have some Rim Rock 220's that leaded everything I tried them in even at sedate velocity.  I would imagine non-plated bullets will work in this barrel just fine and I would like to keep this one stock for reliable woods carry.

What are your favorite plated bullet loads (X-Treme like mine) you are using successfully in a stock G20 barrel?

The first thing I would do is shoot it with known good ammo using a real jacketed bullet.  Using a good heavy paper target really helps to identify clean holes from slightly oval ones. 

If that ammo even shows a hint of not perfectly stabilizing the bullet, first thing to check is the barrel crown.  Under good light and (in my case) good magnification.

You posted you measured the bullet diameter, did you slug the bore?  Many european guns have bores that are .001-.002 oversize.  (more so in 9mm than 10mm)  This will also tell you if there are tight spots or loose spots in the bore.

If the barrels fine.  Next, check your ammo.  Pull a loaded round from the offending load and inspect & mic the bullet.  Two things I've learned to ruin coated or plated bullets are, to much crimp and the Lee Factory Crimp Die.  Look for the tail tell ring around the bullet.  This stress weakens the coating/plating and can cause it to start to shear as the bullet enters the rifling and create a wing as the bullet exit's the bore, unstabilizing it.

Last, try a different powder.  I've posted a few times about my experiences with Longshot.  I've gotten mediocre groups (patterns? ) with 8.0 gr of Longshot and the 200 gr Xtreme but what accuracy their is disappears when more powder is added.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

[jazzsax8]

Just picked up a nice G20SF that had less than 300 rounds through it.  Stock RSA and barrel.  First trip to the range with some of my tried and true loads of 9.0 Longshot with the X-Treme 200gr bullet.  In this new pistol I worked up test loads starting at 8.4, 8.6, 8.8 and 8.9 before trying the 9.0gr that had been max in some other aftermarket barrels in my G29SF.

Now the bad news.  ALL of the groups were keyholing at 20 yards producing average groups from 15 to 17".  I had only shot this bullet/powder through aftermarket barrels where it was tough to get a group larger than 3" 5 shots at 25 yards.  Some went as small as 1 7/8"!  Its almost like this factory barrel will not be made to work with this plated bullet using any combination of powders etc.  I use all of the loading tricks learned on this site (thanks much as I was only a heavy crimping revolver loader before getting the 10mm Glocks a year ago).

I do have some Berrys 180's, X-Treme 220's and XTP's in 200gr to try before I give up and buy another aftermarket barrel.  I also have some Rim Rock 220's that leaded everything I tried them in even at sedate velocity.  I would imagine non-plated bullets will work in this barrel just fine and I would like to keep this one stock for reliable woods carry.

What are your favorite plated bullet loads (X-Treme like mine) you are using successfully in a stock G20 barrel?

The first thing I would do is shoot it with known good ammo using a real jacketed bullet.  Using a good heavy paper target really helps to identify clean holes from slightly oval ones. 

I agree, next step I will try some 200gr XTP's but was hoping to come up with an accurate practice load using the X-Tremes.

If that ammo even shows a hint of not perfectly stabilizing the bullet, first thing to check is the barrel crown.  Under good light and (in my case) good magnification.

Crown is mint perfect with same depth marks down into the barrel as well.

You posted you measured the bullet diameter, did you slug the bore?  Many european guns have bores that are .001-.002 oversize.  (more so in 9mm than 10mm)  This will also tell you if there are tight spots or loose spots in the bore.

My bore slugged at .4015 leaning towards .402.  I need to check into the process of checking out the tight/loose spots though.

If the barrels fine.  Next, check your ammo.  Pull a loaded round from the offending load and inspect & mic the bullet.  Two things I've learned to ruin coated or plated bullets are, to much crimp and the Lee Factory Crimp Die.  Look for the tail tell ring around the bullet.  This stress weakens the coating/plating and can cause it to start to shear as the bullet enters the rifling and create a wing as the bullet exit's the bore, unstabilizing it.

Pulling the X-Tremes kind of show a minor resizing maybe .0002.  I crimp just enough to pass the drop test using plated or lead.  Its usually around .423 to .4235.  I do the two step seat/crimp process seating to length with the Hornady die (crimp backed off) then final crimp with the Lee Factory Crimp Die in .44mag with the .40/10mm guts in it to prevent distorting the bullet.

Last, try a different powder.  I've posted a few times about my experiences with Longshot.  I've gotten mediocre groups (patterns? ) with 8.0 gr of Longshot and the 200 gr Xtreme but what accuracy their is disappears when more powder is added.

Looking through my loading results with other barrels it does seem I had better accuracy at the max load level using hand weighed 800X vs. the Longshot I would love to get to work for the progressive press.

Did you ever get a plated or lead bullet to work in your stock barrel?  No one has yet posted measurable results other than their own custom cast bullet.  Would love to get something near max going 5 shots into 2" or less at 25yds.  I'm spoiled as I was able to get that with my G29SF and two aftermarket barrels.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

[fltbed]

Did you ever get a plated or lead bullet to work in your stock barrel?  No one has yet posted measurable results other than their own custom cast bullet.  Would love to get something near max going 5 shots into 2" or less at 25yds.  I'm spoiled as I was able to get that with my G29SF and two aftermarket barrels.

Get them to work?  Yes

Near max loads?  Not yet :'(

With my new Glock 40, I've gotten acceptable accuracy, (3.5"-5" @ 50 yards) with:

180 gr coated lead (Black Cherry)
6.8 gr WSF
Armscor brass
CCI 300 primer
OAL 1.255
Velocity: 1119 f.p.s. (G40)

180 gr Xtreme HP
8.2 gr BE-86
Starline brass
CCI 300 primer
OAL 1.255
Velocity: 1202 f.p.s. (G40)

200 gr Xtreme TMJ
12.6 gr #9
Starline brass
Win LP primer
OAL 1.255
Velocity 1118 f.p.s. (G40)

I ordered more Xtreme's when they had their Black Friday sale, including the 220 gr.  If the weather ever breaks, I'll be out doing more tests.  I've got ladder test loads made up with the 220's + Longshot, the 200's + Power Pistol, the 180 HP's + Blue dot & #7.

Jeff