Buffalo Bore Again...

[Intercooler]

I could be totally wrong here but Buffalo Bore hasn't been on mainstream shelves like Cabela's for long. My point is most know what Buffalo Bore is... high performance. Most know what PPU and American Eagle are... low performance.  If a call is placed to Colt and they are asked if it's okay to run Buffalo Bore in it, the answer is probably no.

As for what to do? I just laid out the best approach up there since every pistol is different.  Possibly your unit isn't where the member just posted his Colt is with missing primers. Every new box of ammo I get I check them and measure their weights before shooting. I'm the last line of defense!

[colt1911fan]

I could be totally wrong here but Buffalo Bore hasn't been on mainstream shelves like Cabela's for long. My point is most know what Buffalo Bore is... high performance. Most know what PPU and American Eagle are... low performance.  If a call is placed to Colt and they are asked if it's okay to run Buffalo Bore in it, the answer is probably no.

As for what to do? I just laid out the best approach up there since every pistol is different.  Possibly your unit isn't where the member just posted his Colt is with missing primers. Every new box of ammo I get I check them and measure their weights before shooting. I'm the last line of defense!

Fair enough. Definitely can't argue against either point as sound wisdom. Ammo manufacturers simply can't be trusted. Double check "botique" folks by calling firearm manufacturer AND ammo maker AND check weights, check the first casing that is ejected, etc.... For mainstream low performance stuff, weigh them all. Be the last line of defense. Continue to educate thyself.

But, wow, sure seems like there ought to be some accountability to the manufacturers as they rake in our $s on off the shelf products labelled for a use they aren't suitable for. And, while I support rules and laws that protect firearm and ammo makers from law suits of deliberate abuse of their products (mass shooters are the criminals, not the gun or ammo companies in those cases), it's absurd that there is no accountability for their liabilities other than a lawsuit that is only worthwhile when a major injury occurs. That's insanity. Tire makers are accountable for their product as they enterprise; they aren't for folks that use their tires to kill a bunch of people at a homecoming.

[Intercooler]

 When things have surfaced, a few like Underwood and Swamp Fox paid for any damage. I don't think a lot of Buffalo Bore is being shot here for more reasons than one!


You found us though and we put them all under the microscope constantly to see what's what. Feel free to ask about any ammo you come across.  One of us here will have the dope on it!

[my_old_glock]

... Ammo manufacturers simply can't be trusted. Double check "botique" folks by calling firearm manufacturer AND ammo maker AND check weights, check the first casing that is ejected, etc.... For mainstream low performance stuff, weigh them all. Be the last line of defense. Continue to educate thyself.
...

When I test my high power loads, I remove the magazine from the gun. If there is a blow-out, the gasses have somewhere to go and my magazine won't get damaged.



.

[4949shooter]

The manuals for the Colt pistols do tell you not to run +p ammunition in them. The reason though, is not for "blowouts" but it says +p will increase wear in their pistols.

Hey, a blowout is a form of wear, right?

I realize there is no industry standard +p designation for 10mm. Just thought I would throw that out there. The Delta Elite comes equipped with a 23 pound recoil spring. The standard Colt .45 ACP recoil spring is 16 pounds. So it does seem that Colt was trying to gear up for the extra slide velocity of the 10mm cartridge. Who really knows why Colt didn't go with a ramped barrel setup? Either they didn't do their homework back in the day, or perhaps the mainstream 10mm ammo wasn't quite as hot back then as it is now.

Something to ponder.

[Sniper711]

Looky Here >

http://www.ballistics101.com/10mm.php

[Sniper711]

If you look at Underwoods ..."Delta " load it is down on power from the others

[4949shooter]

Absolutely. And for good reason.

[The_Shadow]

Here is what I can say the proof is there in the Pull-Down section of this forum, thanks to those who shared their ammo for the examination and documentations. 

BTW I see people mentioning +P ammo, in 10mm there is NO +P ammo because the SAAMI spec is set at 37.500 PSI.

Now here is how that works out;
Example of SAAMI  205 10mm pressure MAP http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/205.pdf

The specific loads of the test have to fit the MAP set by SAAMI.

Here is a typical MAP as set by SAAMI
Nominal Mean Instrument @ 15 feet with =/-90 fps from test barrel
Maximum Average pressure MAP of 35700 psi
Maximum Portable Lot Mean MPLM of 38700 psi
Maximum Portable Sample Mean MPSM of 40500 psi

The ammunition in test (10 rounds) would need to fit this established profile.

Nothing in the sample over 40500 psi

Here is something to consider...The piezoelectric transducer system employs the transducer flush mounted inside the chamber of the test barrel. Pressures developed by the expanding gases to the cartridge walls causing the transducer to deflect creating a measurable electrical charge. This change is then converted to a pressure reading in psi.

Systems being sold are being used on the outside of the chamber of the test barrel. The expanding cartridge is not directly acting upon the transducer as in the SAAMI testing.

Proof Pressures for 10mm are 130% minimum and 140% maximum as set by SAAMI
The formula is based on the Maximum Portable Lot Mean MPLM of 38,700 psi
38,700 x 1.30 = 50,310 psi  and 38,700 x 1.40 = 54,180 psi
Minimum and Maximum
50,310 psi - 54,180 psi  these would be rounded to 50,500 psi - 54,000 psi

[Sniper711]

All ya gots to do is gets u one of dem bully berrels , it's thicker than a normal berrel so it can handle the extry pressures ....its simples !

[4949shooter]

Here is what I can say the proof is there in the Pull-Down section of this forum, thanks to those who shared their ammo for the examination and documentations. 

BTW I see people mentioning +P ammo, in 10mm there is NO +P ammo because the SAAMI spec is set at 37.500 PSI.

Correct. Which is why I followed it up with this:

"I realize there is no industry standard +p designation for 10mm. Just thought I would throw that out there"

I was speaking of the verbiage in the Colt manuals. In other words, if they are not rated for +p ammo, then it stands to reason their design is not up to snuff for a steady diet of full power 10mm ammo.

[sqlbullet]

Yeah...Some folks get confused about +P cause they see it in the manual that came with their 10mm.  The manuals, at least in my experience, are never caliber specific.  Same manual goes in the box with a 45 ACP for which there is a SAAMI 45 ACP +P designation.

And, yes, as Shadow mentions, if the gun is built to handle 10mm spec ammo then it should withstand a 54,000 PSI proof round.  I will tell you that I am not going to volunteer to shoot a 54K PSI round from a Delta Elite.  IMHO a round lack that demands better case head support than the Delta offers.

Buffalo Bore sells a lot of ammo.  I carried it for several years.  But, I think they are doing a dis-service saying on their website that the ammo is fine in a Delta Elite.  I think you will get the occasional round that falls within saami specs, but on the very upper end for the lot, that will have the potential for an event.  Add to it the reports of popped primers, and it becomes clear that there is some kind of issue here.

[4949shooter]

Yeah...Some folks get confused about +P cause they see it in the manual that came with their 10mm.  The manuals, at least in my experience, are never caliber specific.  Same manual goes in the box with a 45 ACP for which there is a SAAMI 45 ACP +P designation.

And, yes, as Shadow mentions, if the gun is built to handle 10mm spec ammo then it should withstand a 54,000 PSI proof round.  I will tell you that I am not going to volunteer to shoot a 54K PSI round from a Delta Elite.  IMHO a round lack that demands better case head support than the Delta offers.

Buffalo Bore sells a lot of ammo.  I carried it for several years.  But, I think they are doing a dis-service saying on their website that the ammo is fine in a Delta Elite.  I think you will get the occasional round that falls within saami specs, but on the very upper end for the lot, that will have the potential for an event.  Add to it the reports of popped primers, and it becomes clear that there is some kind of issue here.

They really should issue warnings on their boxes in the same manner that Underwood does.

I guess it hasn't been that much of an issue until now.

[sqlbullet]

Plenty of people still throwing money at them.

Makes me, once again, really wish I had a pressure barrel.

[The_Shadow]

Personally I don't think that todays brass is as strong as it use to be. 
StarLine is a soft and very malleable brass.
Older Winchester was a good fairly strong.
NORMA was also stiffer sturdier.
Federal was somewhat brittle and often split on the first factory loading.
Horandy was a stiffer brass too.
Remington was good to go.

So just how much the brass plays into these upper end performance loads is something to think about!