Do you agree with this Police shooting of the Dog?

[Intercooler]

  Maybe some are like me being "Junk Yard Dog". I don't like ANYONE on my property that isn't invited by me and I'm harsh! On that list would be religious people, sales people, solicitors, other community residents cutting through the common area on the side of my property and anyone coming to my door to try pushing something.

[DenStinett]

Watch his demeanor from the start
Hi's all "twitchy" looking around the Front Porch area
Then watch his hand
He's going for his Gun AS the Door is being opened
I think there's more here than just going up to tell the resident that they had left the Car Door open

[DM1906]

Nothing wrong with that and, in fact, I'm much the same way. However, a peace officer on your/my property with lawful business requires some level of restraint. I'm a (ret.) cop, and I don't like anyone on my property uninvited, including cops. I live in a mountain area with lots of acreage and a 1/4 mile driveway. By the time they are here, there's probably a very good reason for it (most of the time they're flatlanders looking for an address or local info.). I have nothing to hide, but no one has any right or authority to question that. I respect that of others, as well. A fleeing felon using your yard as a getaway route will have zero respect for you or your rights. We have a Conservation Camp (minimum security state prison fire camp) a few miles up the road from me, and that's played a part a few times with escapees. They've never entered my property, that I know of, but I know it could happen, and we have a "contingency plan", if it should.

[DM1906]

Watch his demeanor from the start
Hi's all "twitchy" looking around the Front Porch area
Then watch his hand
He's going for his Gun AS the Door is being opened
I think there's more here than just going up to tell the resident that they had left the Car Door open

What video did you watch?

What "twitchy" behavior? Attempting to contact an unknown does warrant some caution, such as looking around. I saw nothing unusual, at all, before the door was initially opened. Too relaxed, if anything, in my professional opinion.

He didn't "cover" his weapon until the door was partially open. He didn't "go for his gun" (grip and draw) until the dog was OUT of the door.

Of course, there may be more to this. Unfortunately, no one is talking about it. Maybe the only "more" is the speculation. At this point, the investigation and fact doesn't matter. The media has already rendered a verdict. Guilty, until the officer proves his innocence?

The media is a joke. One (or more) actually said the dog was happy while the owner comforted it after the incident. Really? Because its tail was wagging? After being shot 3 times in the head? Really? That's the jury we're dealing with.  Or I could be completely wrong, and I have, in fact, generated a tremendous amount of joy in the truckloads of squirrels I've shot.

[4949shooter]

It seems there are two subjects to this thread.

1. Did this officer do the right thing under the circumstances? (This is up to speculation and opinion)

2. Can deadly use of force be justified when you are on someone else's property.

Well, if a SWAT team or any officer goes through a gate approaching a residence on a raid, call, warrant service, or whatever legal reason, he or she has the right to use force and deadly force to protect him or herself. I am not going to bother quoting NJ law. What I can say is that I get refreshed on it twice a year as per NJ requirement.

What am I supposed to do? Let the dog chew my leg off?

Speaking of pit bulls, about ten years ago two of my friends were attacked by a pit bull when they went on a call. The owner "let" the dog out. The pit bull charged my friend twice. He caught the pit in the face just below the eye with one of the 115 grain Remington green box JHP's I was talking about. What happened to the pit bull? It ran off. It survived all night until animal control found it alive the next day. There is a picture of the dog with a hole under its eye, laying down upright, like any dog watching traffic go by its house. The pitbull didn't look like it was even bothered by it. It was euthanized.

All American citizens have the right to defend themselves. As I said before, police officers have the right by law to press forward and use force if necessary to achieve a lawful objective. Non-police officers don't have this right, and thus normally aren't in the same situations police officers are in due to the nature of their jobs. Kind of like the story I just related, where the owner "let" the dog out on my friends. The mailman never seemed to have this problem at that residence.

[Geeman]

OC vs. pit bull? You go with that. It's obvious you've never done it. It doesn't work. Ever. If you are far enough away to consider that as an option, you have that distance/time to consider other options, such as retreat (if it is an option) or cover.

Kick a pit bull? Go ahead. I know of several who tried. Even at (only) 40 pounds, all you'll do is piss it off, and use up VERY valuable reaction time. And, once it is on you, you remove the ability for your backup, if you have one, to do anything to help you, without risking further injury or death to you. Yeah. Good idea.

You are correct.  I've never sprayed one.  I have stood a few down and they were about the same as any of the others.  Just for kicks I looked for videos on the internet.  100% effective on pits in the videos I could find for dogs with an ability to retreat.  A cornered animal will fight no matter what.

Kick one.  I'd do it.  I'd know just what I had on my hands after that.  It either runs back to mama, or its plan B if it chooses to continue.  If its a friendly dog, it retreats.  If its a bluff charge it runs back to its person.  If it means harm to me, it may be heading my way again.  What it gets at that point, it deserves.

Pits are generally not aggressive toward people.  The dog in the video was the lightest boned Pit Bull to the point where I'd say it isn't a pit.  It might have some in its blood, but crop the ears and its a pit according to many.  I cannot know for sure.  Maybe it was a hardened, trained fighter and the owner turned it loose on a cop, but I doubt it.  I would guess it was just a family pet, not the devil incarnate.

Greg

[sqlbullet]

Between years working my dads feed route with him, where every house had at least one dog, and a couple years working in a door to door fashion in cities, I have faced down countless dogs.  In all that time I was never bitten, and I was charged lots.  Face them aggressively, and yell as loudly as I can if needed.  There was only ever one dog I think I could not have made that work on.  It belonged to a family in a small town in Nevada, it was a rot, and it had failed out of police K-9 training because it was completely nuts.

I tend to think, regardless of department policy and training or legal sanction, that this video represents the worst application of procedure.  He may have the law on his side, but I don't think it was "right".  Yes, I do think you have the right to defend yourself if you are in are acting in official capacity.  I personally don't think telling someone their car door is open should fall under "official business".  (I am assuming the car was in the driveway.  If the car was parked curbside then that changes things).

One thing we all need to keep in mind here, as we disagree, is we all fill in these little details differently.  Without even thinking about them, we fill them in based on our own bias.

FYI, for reference, I think this is probably the home in question:

https://www.google.com/maps/@25.4405012,-80.4899658,3a,86.1y,21.02h,86.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sX0FI5AuQQ56ZnnFtt25y5g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

[Pinsnscrews]

something was going on in the house that put the officer on edge even before he knocked. He was definately approaching for a reason other than an open car door, or had started to initially and upon getting near the front, something made him defensive.

Just as he crosses the first visible line in the sidewalk you can see his whole tactic change to a cautious defensive one. His knock on the door is almost timid. He was expecting something to happen. It is obvious he is paying close attention to the sounds he is hearing come from in the house.

Watch his demeanor from the start
Hi's all "twitchy" looking around the Front Porch area
Then watch his hand
He's going for his Gun AS the Door is being opened
I think there's more here than just going up to tell the resident that they had left the Car Door open

At least I am not the only one who saw the way his approach changed.

[4949shooter]

FYI, for reference, I think this is probably the home in question:

https://www.google.com/maps/@25.4405012,-80.4899658,3a,86.1y,21.02h,86.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sX0FI5AuQQ56ZnnFtt25y5g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

That's a nicer area than I thought it would be.

[Geeman]

My co-worker has four pits, and I asked him questions about the video and about the breed.  He knows a lot about them.

Did that dog intend to harm the officer?... No

How do you know?...   Because if it wanted to harm the man, it would have been air born with its teeth heading directly toward the man's face.  There is no man tall enough that a pit can't reach by jumping.

What is the best way to defend against an attacking pit bull?.....  Because the dog is off the ground its easy to side step its advance.  As it goes by, grab the hide with both hands and use your sideways momentum to toss the dog off to the side.  It may or may not continue the attack.

What if I kicked it?....  It may or may not abandon the attack.

What if I wacked it in the head?....   You could wack it in the head with a shovel, dent the shovel, and a pit might think your playing. 

What about pepper spray?...   Almost certainly it would retreat.  If your hurting one of its humans, all bets are off, but their noses are sensitive to the stuff.  It wouldn't want any more of it.

He also gave some advise to a pit clamped onto a victim.  There is a way to get it to release, post haste.  Stick your thumb up the dogs ass, and all the focus its putting on the business in front of him is instantly forgotten and replaced with "What's in my butt?"

Greg