FBI moves to 9 - Boon for 10mm?

[sqlbullet]

There is a huge difference between the terminal ballistics of the 38 Long Colt (125 grains @750 fps) and a 9mm NATO (125 grains @ 1200 fps).

Medical reports show that for human aggressors, any handgun is under powered.

[DM1906]

There is a huge difference between the terminal ballistics of the 38 Long Colt (125 grains @750 fps) and a 9mm NATO (125 grains @ 1200 fps).

Medical reports show that for human aggressors, any handgun is under powered.

......Any [reasonable] handgun is underpowered. There are exceptions to the statement, but none of them reasonable for combat. Big power, low capacity. Small power, High capacity. Soldiers are not issued handguns as their primary weapon, and are not referred to handgunmen, for a reason. Any combat-capable handgun is only marginally effective as a means to get a rifle in your hands.

The 9mm and .45ACP are equally lethal. The problem is, TIME. Lethal hits with the .45 are more likely to stop the fight earlier.

That said, soldiers armed with .500SWM SBR's would only have to fight one battle. After the MSM got through reporting the horrific carnage (with their typical embellishments), no opposing force would stay on the battlefield. As Teddy said, "Big Stick!"

[Captain O]

Not a real fan of the .40 S&W cartridge. It's okay, but If I want to shoot something that's "reduced" I'll shoot the 9mm or something else. The Feds aren't known for the best of decisions.

[sqlbullet]

While I am not a 40 S&W fan either, it was the right move for the feds.  They were already loading 10mm to those specs, why not benefit from a shorter cartridge.

[The_Shadow]

9mm vs. .40 Caliber  (some of these scenes may be disturbing)

http://www.policemag.com/channel/weapons/articles/2016/01/9mm-vs-40-caliber.aspx

[derrick.mobley1]

Alaska state troopers use the g/22.

[gandog56]

Not a real fan of the .40 S&W cartridge. It's okay, but If I want to shoot something that's "reduced" I'll shoot the 9mm or something else. The Feds aren't known for the best of decisions.

Didn't the Feds spend a lot of money after the Miami shootout going to 10mm because 9mm was inadequate? Only to woose out and say recoil was too strong? But still, going back to the caliber gun that was inadequate in the first place? This is your government tax dollars at work!

[ZanderMan]

Not to run afoul of 10mm and .45ACP purists, but there are very good 9mm bullet designs and +P loads that weren't around when the 10mm was tried by the FBI. The 9mm is a less expensive caliber for FMJ target practice and HP, and if they are more accurate with it along with effective bullet designs then it seems like a good move.

[sqlbullet]

I agree, but improvements in hollow point design is a tide that raises all boats.  10 mm and 45 acp are that much better for it to.  And there is nothing that overcomes the same sectional density in a heavier bullet moving faster.

[The_Shadow]

Mostly ineffective projectiles with poor design characteristics back then.  It also sparked a search for better bullet designs and ammunition performance standards.

They want to bring the perp to justice more so than kill them.
Better accuracy and capacity in a smaller easier to handle package.
Law Enforcement and other Agencies have the benefit of numbers and backup teams. 
(We don't have these at our disposal during an attack on us until LEA's arrive)
Also close quarter battle with personnel or non criminals in the vicinity where shots are fired.
Also most LEA's carry other weapons like AR's these days.

Who will be the losers?  We may be the losers as projectiles for 40 caliber may not be as prevalent as they are at the present as they give way to 9mm over time.

[ZanderMan]

I agree, but improvements in hollow point design is a tide that raises all boats.  10 mm and 45 acp are that much better for it to.  And there is nothing that overcomes the same sectional density in a heavier bullet moving faster.

Agree as well, but cost is also a factor... aka budgets.

Not sure what the LEO on the street would choose...

[DM1906]

At the time the 10mm development began, FBI still issued .38 Spl revolvers, with 160 gr. LRN bullets. Agents in the field rarely carried or had access to more than that. The popularity of (modern-type) JHP's in law enforcement, nationwide, was still in the distant future. The HP's of the time were soft points, and the only remaining bullet option was FMJ (which was the bullet developed with the 10mm and early .40SW). The 9mm handguns and ammo available today wasn't an option at that time.

"Capture rather than kill" was/is not a strategy. Of course, capture is preferred, but it was/is not an "option" to be considered in a service weapon, nor at the time of incident. The FBI desired standard at the time was 12-18" penetration, same as now (although 18" was/is, in no way, a limit). If "less lethal" was ever an option, they would have done the same as the military, and insisted on FMJ. At that time, the military was still issuing .38's and .45's. "Overpenetration" was universally discarded as a factor. An average 80% of all combat shots fired by LEO's were misses. Still are today, despite "better accuracy". Can't argue with higher capacity, though. I did "feel" more confident when I traded up to a G22 with 46 rounds, from a Model 10 and 18 rounds.

Despite 35 years of technological advances in firearms and ammunition, the statistics haven't changed one bit.

[DM1906]

I agree, but improvements in hollow point design is a tide that raises all boats.  10 mm and 45 acp are that much better for it to.  And there is nothing that overcomes the same sectional density in a heavier bullet moving faster.

Agree as well, but cost is also a factor... aka budgets.

Not sure what the LEO on the street would choose...

The LEO on the street would choose a shotgun, every time, but they don't holster well.

[sqlbullet]

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/everyone-needs-ar-holster/

[4949shooter]

I agree, but improvements in hollow point design is a tide that raises all boats.  10 mm and 45 acp are that much better for it to.  And there is nothing that overcomes the same sectional density in a heavier bullet moving faster.

Agree as well, but cost is also a factor... aka budgets.

Not sure what the LEO on the street would choose...

The LEO on the street would choose a shotgun, every time, but they don't holster well.

Or a 6920 / 6940. But these don't holster well either.