FBI moves to 9 - Boon for 10mm?

[sqlbullet]

That has been their pattern in the past, and probably will continue.

[Howard]

Is there a place I can buy 10mm ammo in the original load that was so tough for the FBI?  I understand the standard 10mm that I'd normally purchase is a much lighter load than the original.

Thanks

[sqlbullet]

First, the FBI never issued any load other than the 180 grain @950 fps load.  Reports that FBI agents could not handle the recoil are erroneous.  They cooked up this load during their testing protocols out of concern over the Colt Delta Elite's ability to handle the higher impulse load.  The primary complaint of agents was carrying a gun as big and heavy as the 1076, and getting their hands around the grip.

That said, you are correct that the FBI load was substantially downloaded.  180 grains JHP @ 950 fps is 300 to 400 fps below 10mm max.  Winchester Silvertips 175 grain JHP load is running 1294 fps according to the box and 1210 fps in testing from a 4.75" barrel.  Underwood and Buffalo Bore 180 grain JHP's are both advertised at 1300 fps and in testing meet or exceed that speed from a 4.75" barrel.

If you look in the factory ammo section of this forum, one of the stickies is a factory ammo test sheet that shows advertised and for most loads real world tested volocities for the various commercial loads.

Here is a direct link.

http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/10mm-factory-ammo-master-sheet/

[Wolfie]

Honestly, I could care less what the FBI does or recommend. The 10mm format is the best pistol platform out there. You can change to .40 or .357 quick. You can load them cold, medium or hot.

The public appears to be recognizing this. Manufacturers are making the guns with multiple sizes and purposes. Plus I have never seen so much ammo from many different companies.

Heck there is even a great website about the 10mm out there.

These are the golden days, all thats left it getting a revolver released.

[will965]

FBI uses what they called 10mm SPL......special,lol...and there are still 10mms in use .

[gandog56]

I just don't get it. After the Miami shootout where the 9mm pistols of the agent failed to take the bad guys down, they went to 10mm. Then they did not like the recoil of the 10mm and now they are going back to 9mm's again? This is typical guvmint thinking.

[The_Shadow]

It is not just the FBI that is going back to 9 minies...many law enforcement and others are also switching back.  The reason is cost and supply via contracts for ammo first and foremost so they can train more and keep ammo in stock. 
Yes, the 9mm works for them...Why?  Besides keeping cost down and able to carry more ammo in their guns while keeping carry weight lower on their already overloaded gun belts (law enforcement mainly) they also have backup personnel and weapons at their disposal, in shot order.  (something the average joe doesn't have while carrying in public)
Such as many have backup shotguns and AR rifles in their daily cruisers.  FBI usually arrive after law enforcement has secured a scene, unless they are conducting a raid and their 9's will be close quarter confrontations and likely be swinging other type firearms...

One thing that may happen is that we will see less 10mm/.40 cal bullet diversity in the long run and the prices could become even higher, because they are not having contract overruns for some styles that may be sold to the public.  So with less demands and production we may be suckling the hind tit so to speak.   I hope I'm wrong because there are plenty .40 cal firearms out there that will need bullets.

[sqlbullet]

The other thing they have learned is the rank and file officer cannot shot a 40 as fast and accurately as they can a 9mm.  Hits with the less potent 9mm are far better than misses.

[The_Shadow]

It also comes down to bring the perp to the justice for their day in court only to be turned around and shoved out the  "REVOLVING DOORS OF JUSTICE"...

If they just kill them, the departments get bad PR and sued. Either way the lawyers get to make a astronomical amount of money as they work the system...

[will965]

Not to mention the 9mm ammo today is heads and tails above what was available 20 years ago....that helps.

[sqlbullet]

Not to mention the 9mm ammo today is heads and tails above what was available 20 years ago....that helps.

This is true.  Advancements in metallurgy, manufacturing techniques, construction for terminal performance, and chemical advances in propellants have all allowed the 9mm to amp up its "game", as it were.

But, a rising tide raises all boats.  So the 10mm is also heads and shoulders above what it was 20 years ago.

[gandog56]

The other thing they have learned is the rank and file officer cannot shot a 40 as fast and accurately as they can a 9mm.  Hits with the less potent 9mm are far better than misses.

Maybe I shoulda been an agent when they went to 10mm. Here's one of my targets.

[4949shooter]

The other thing they have learned is the rank and file officer cannot shot a 40 as fast and accurately as they can a 9mm.  Hits with the less potent 9mm are far better than misses.

Maybe I shoulda been an agent when they went to 10mm. Here's one of my targets.

Hell yeah!

[gandog56]

The other thing they have learned is the rank and file officer cannot shot a 40 as fast and accurately as they can a 9mm.  Hits with the less potent 9mm are far better than misses.

I guess it doesn't matter that you may have to hit them a lot more with a 9 to stop them,, then. Reminds me of when the US Army was screaming that the .38's they were issued did not stop the Moros charging at them in the Philippines. That is how the .45 Came to be.

[sqlbullet]

There is a huge difference between the terminal ballistics of the 38 Long Colt (125 grains @750 fps) and a 9mm NATO (125 grains @ 1200 fps).

Medical reports show that for human aggressors, any handgun is under powered.