Underwood 220gr Hard Cast Flat Nose

[REDLINE]

Cool.

[highxj]

I just dissected one of these.  Apologies for the mangled bullet, I could not find my kinetic puller so had to resort to pliers and my press.

These are loaded to 1.250" with a TC type plain base bullet with single lube groove.  The bullet weighed right at 220 grains, and is a nominal .740" long.  The pictures show it next to a handloaded, and then component 200 gr. DT WFN bullet.  The meplat approx. .270" on the flat with somewhat rounded corners, compared to the relatively sharp cornered meplat of the DT bullet and it's .315"-ish diameter.

The powder, from the descriptions I've read, appears to be 800x.  I have none to compare it to, but it is large round flakes with some tan flakes.  I DO know it's not Blue Dot, Longshot, Power Pistol, or clearly any ball type powder.  The charge weight was 8.5 grains and there was not a single flake unaccounted for.

I will run some out of my 4.6" KKM barrel and post the chrono results as well....

[REDLINE]

Thanks highxj!  It does seem the powder is 800X.  And the charge weight seems to make sense being 800X also.  I can hardly believe an ammo manufacturer would bother using 800X with its extremely poor metering capability.  I can't imagine he loads them by hand.  It leaves me wondering what the charge weight consistency is between something like 10 rounds, because if Underwood isn't weighing charge weights by hand with that powder, I have to imagine they do vary some at least.

Very interesting though.  That is one big answer to a question many of us have had for a very long time.  Whether or not 800X is used in all Underwood 10mm loads, I don't know.  But if not, funny they'ld use it just for that one.

Thanks again for disecting it.  Great pics too!

[sqlbullet]

Maybe he has found the magic meter.  While I have never had luck metering 800x or long stick powders like H4831, I have never tried anything but my RCBS.  Maybe a different design works better.

Good review and info.  Thanks for posting.

[Yondering]

Thanks for posting those pics!

Wow, that is a really long bullet. Definitely wouldn't be my choice, for a handloading component anyway. Not much powder capacity left in a load like that. I have to wonder what kind of pressures that load is producing to do 1200 fps.

[sqlbullet]

Yeah, I had the same thought Yondering....

And, is it just me or does the base of the bullet look like it has been swaged down some?  Loading that long it is reasonable to expect. 

HighXJ, could you measure the bottom of the bullet and report it's diameter?

I am gonna guess it will measure .398 - .399 or smaller right at the bottom where it is shiny.  That would almost certainly mean leading in my guns.

[highxj]

Thanks for posting those pics!

Wow, that is a really long bullet. Definitely wouldn't be my choice, for a handloading component anyway. Not much powder capacity left in a load like that. I have to wonder what kind of pressures that load is producing to do 1200 fps.

Yes, I'm not wild about that bullet design either....it takes up in incredible amount of space in that case.  It didn't seem to be particularly hard either.  I stupidly sold my LBT hardness tester years ago, but the bullet was rather easy to sink the pliers into.

I have an industry friend that has access to a pressure lab.  I've had him test some 45 Super loads for me in the past and inquired about doing a couple of these Underwood loads, but he said they are so swamped right now it's not possible to secure any lab time.  If that ever changes I'll post some results here.

Sqlbullet, you are correct.  I got measurements as small as .398" right at the base. 

[Yondering]

Sqlbullet, you are correct.  I got measurements as small as .398" right at the base.

That makes sense. A bullet that long loaded to 1.250" in the 10mm case will have the base down in the tapered portion of the case walls, creating a bulge. These rounds are probably run through one of those Lee factory crimp dies or something like it, to remove the bulge, which swages down the base of the bullet.

This bullet looks like one of the commercial 220gr TC designs, which I've said before are a poor choice for the 10mm. If it works for Underwood though, good for them.

For comparison, my 220gr bullet from Mountain Molds is .673" long, .680" with a plain base (soda can aluminum) gas check. That's a full .060" shorter than this underwood bullet. I'm loading mine to similar velocity to the Underwood load (1300 fps from my 6.6" longslide) but probably at lower pressure.

[MrRedbull616]

Underwood and Buffalo Bore are using the same 220gr bullet.  They are made by Rimrock.   

According to a few sources the Rimrock 220 is harder than both of the doubletap offerings (200gr and 230gr) by quite a bit.

If there is better options for a hard cast bullet maybe someone should give Underwood a call and make a suggestion
 

[MrRedbull616]

Doesn't Underwood say he tests all his ammo through a stock glock barrel?  If it works through that then what's the problem???

The only other hard cast options out there in 10mm are Doubletap which so far for me NEVER tests out at what they advertised and costs nearly $50 for a box of 50  OR  Buffalo bore at $29 per 20rds.

I don't get it people...just gotta find something to complain about...never good enough!

[Yondering]

I don't get it people...just gotta find something to complain about...never good enough!

Not complaining, just discussing what they're doing, good or bad. If you can't follow a discussion of what is or isn't done right, how are you going to learn, so you can make it better next time?

[Intercooler]

It's just one guy complaining about everything. Part of why I don't post here now.

[Yondering]

If there is better options for a hard cast bullet maybe someone should give Underwood a call and make a suggestion

I don't think there are many better options for a commercially cast 220gr bullet; Underwood is doing pretty good with what's available. This is definitely better than DT's 230gr abomination. You're pretty much stuck casting your own if you want a better 220gr 10mm bullet.

Seriously, I don't get the comments about complaining. Do you guys really have that much problem discussing technical details?

[Intercooler]

   Then offer the suggestion up to the man. I know I have helped Kevin where I could but all you seem to do is attack probably our best ammo supplier and members here. I wouldn't feel at all bad if you had kept to the Glock Talk board where such things are welcome and common.

[The_Shadow]

highxj, thanks for the info, that is definitely IMR800X with the tan smaller flakes mixed in, demystifying the various loads is intriguing!