Wanting an honest discussion: What would work to prevent further shootings?

[Buckeye 50]

I am talking, dead honest opinions from all.  Obama and the rest of the left are trying their hardest to use this latest crisis to their advantage.  I certainly empathize with the victims of the shootings.  I read on Fox News where other classes were cancelled in Oregon AND Kentucky.  Here locally, the police caught just-in-time, a young high school kid from taking a loaded gun AND gasoline into a local nice school district for God only knows to what end.


I am a conservative, a parent, an ardent/respectful shooter.  I can't fathom losing either one of my now grown boys.  But, my REAL concern is that if nothing changes, or the pro-gun people don't come up with a solution, the left-wing nut jobs will eventually win - given a few more shootings.


So, what to do?


My wife is a teacher locally at a public middle school.  The truth is that guns - both loaded AND unloaded, are taken from kids weekly in her district.  The teachers and their unions have wanted metal detectors in schools for many years with no success.  The reason?  The liberal parents are concerned it would infringe upon their students.


So, again, what are your thoughts?


Thanks,


Pat

[sqlbullet]

These will be some really unpopular opinions here.

First....

We need social economic reforms.  Which is not to say welfare.  But better safety nets, better training options and better employment options for the economic bottom third of our society.

There is a strong correlation between the Gini coefficient and violent crime by country.  The short version is people will turn to violence to ensure they meet certain minimum standards for food, clothing and shelter.   The interesting thing the Gini coefficient reveals is that the standard is relative to the socio-economic clime of the populace.  A person that is wildly wealthy by sub saharan Africa standards, but poor by LA standards, will turn to mugging.

Second....

We need to de-criminalize recreational drug use.  Yes, it is bad and destroys peoples lives.  But we are doing even more damage with criminal penalties.  Especially in light of recent research which shows that most drug addicts have mental health issues and are in actuality self-medicating.  Lets take the money we would spend locking them up and use it to get them treatment.

Third....

We need firearms education classes in middle school.  Liberals need to get onboard with the fact that guns are just as much a part of their kids lives as penises and vaginas are.  In point of fact, genitals are slightly less than 1 per person in the US, due to accident or birth defect.  Guns on the other hand are more than 1 per person.  Since they are a reality of our lives, and they are quite detrimental if used improperly, we should absolutely be educating our children about them.  The four rules at the very, very, very least.  Information about proper range technique and gun handling procedures are a huge plus.

If we get rid of the drug related gun crime, the income equality related crime and the accidental gun deaths, there won't be much left over to gripe about.

With regard to shootings like Sandy Hook, or this guy in Oregon, not much you can do.  Other than provide an environment where there are trained first responders who are properly armed (read citizens with guns).

[The_Shadow]

Short of having door monitors (people with capabilities) and inspections for contraband there is always a chance someone would get through whose intent is to do harm.  Having trained and armed personnel only works if they have the fortitude to act to stop any threat!  let's face it our country can have threats come in any form not just guns, look at the master clock builder!   

To be effective this may require hiring trained armed guards, or police.

[Rojo27]

So complex a question Pat. 
I do however respectfully disagree with the notion a few more shootings and left wing nut jobs win or its up to pro gun people to figure out a solution on our own.  So much easier to blame the "straw man", but nothing Barry, Hillary, Dianne or any of the rest have offered would have stopped any a single one of these recent tragedies.

In my opinion key variables are far, far too complex for one side's "solution" to resolve it.  They include:

1.  Mental health - Identification of unbalanced individuals, getting them help.  Keeping them from being in a position to harm themselves or others.  How, when, where to intercede are huge questions with monumental implications no one seems serious about exploring. 

2.  The breakdown and dissolution of the fabric of American family, and now marriage (eerie similarities in basic family situation between Sandy Hook and Oregon shooters).  So many young people (primarily young men) are just simply lost in this modern world.  So many want to be famous, renowned (pissed that they aren't appreciated more, or in last several cases sexually frustrated)A somebody, but Kids seldom taught right and wrong at home or church anymore.  It's left to the schools.Parents turning blind eye to their Children's psychosis and all the warning signs..  We could go on, on, on in this section

3.  Violent cultural overload as exhibibited in music, television, video games, etc, etc. 

4.  Evil exists in this world.  Always has, always will. 

Semi-automatic firearms been readily available in this country for hundred years.....  Please list the domestic active shooter mass murders of innocents in 1910's  through the early 1966 (Charles Whitman).  Country certainly struggled with civil rights and all the history sourounding that topic in those years but the random targeting of innocents is a recent phenomenon it seems to me.  The specific targeting or schools even MORE recent. Meanwhile overal gun deaths continue to fall dramatically year after year.  Not that you'd ever hear MSM or Barry admit that.

[Raggedyman]

That's the wrong question. The first question you have to ask is whether you prefer liberty to safety. I don't believe that it is government's responsibility to protect us in the first place.

[Geeman]

Prevent them???

That's pure folly.  That's idealism run wild!!!

I could say there are several things that would help..

Revival

Teach the Golden Rule.  Self rule until you harm another, then you owe restitution.

I'd love to see $1000/week military basic trainiing open to all High School and up.  Have 6 or so weeks, can take a week at a time, or all in one setting.  It would lead to a trained population that would have some level of responsibility, and a source to draw from in a SHTF situation.

Start treating mental illness again, including a safe place to live, get medication levels worked out, and the ability to separate the violent from the general population.

Get people working again.  Everyone needs a feeling of self-worth that is obtained from being self sufficient.  This goes for summer jobs for students too.  Too much negative happens with idle minds.  Government dependency destroys the lives of those that fall into the trap.

Stop insulating those that make bad choices from the results of those bad decisions.  How are people supposed to learn if they are rewarded for screwing up.  Everyone should have the right to screw up, and those that do should bear the consequences.

Most people are decent folks.  The more of those that are armed, the better. 

Greg

[Intercooler]

   If a group is caught out of the blue, I think this would still happen to some degree. That's even if everyone in that group is also armed!
   
     Someone that crossed my path somewhere in life committed suicide tonight. I think it's more about mental health and people getting the block put on them for firearms based on hints of mental issues!

    If they haven't cleared it off yet, feel free to read a little bit of it:

https://www.facebook.com/caleb.rojas.16?pnref=story
https://www.facebook.com/groups/638467266266408/852809608165505/?notif_t=group_activity

    I'm waiting for the story to be in the news tomorrow. His responses suggest he may have used a firearm and the warning signs were there.

[my_old_glock]

Short of having door monitors (people with capabilities) and inspections for contraband there is always a chance someone would get through whose intent is to do harm.  Having trained and armed personnel only works if they have the fortitude to act to stop any threat!  let's face it our country can have threats come in any form not just guns, look at the master clock builder!   

To be effective this may require hiring trained armed guards, or police.

Before the 1960's, there use to be shooting clubs at school, and kids brought rifles to school. I have seen pictures from the 1950's of young kids shooting 22 rifles in their school gym.


.

[Wolfie]

Good comments

[sqlbullet]

Other things to keep in mind.

While gun violence is higher in the US than most industrialized countries, violent crime rates are not out of line with some other industrialized countries. The media tends to fixate on gun violence, as it is somehow worse to be shot to death than beaten to death. (personally, shoot me).

Also, homicides in the US are the lowest they have been in a very long time.  You hear about them more due to the national nature of even local news, primarily due to better communications infrastructure.

And, raggedyman definitely makes a point I agree with.  Not the governments place to provide safety.  They investigate and prosecute crime, and rehabilitate those convicted, but do not, should not and cannot prevent crime and protect liberty.  The two are mutually exclusive.

[Pinsnscrews]

1) Treat Public Mass Shootings the same way you treat a serial killers crime. Public Mass Shootings are a product of the same mindset as a serial killer, only this person shot their wad in one go rather than picking and choosing single targets.

2) Do not count Public Mass Shootings in the same crimnal catagory as General Gun Violence. A distraught father about to lose everything who kills his wife, two kids and himself at home while everyone sleeps is not the same mentality as someone who walks into a school or movie theater and randomly opens fire.

3) Require Mental Health Professionals to Report people who are a danger to themselves and others to the proper authorities. If you are a Mental Health Professional and you "Contract a Persons' Safety", that person NEEDS to be reported properly.

4) Stop Plea Bargaining Gun Violations. If an illegal drug user is caught in the course of transporting illegal drugs and has a gun in his possession at the time, or a burglar breaks into a home and steals a gun or is in posession of a gun at the time, include the gun charge, do not plea bargain it down. If a gun is one of the items stolen, Prosecute Properly, don't just write it off as "Theft if Personal Property."

[Intercooler]

    I think the bigger issue is keeping them out of the wrong hands before they can use them.

That means we as a people need to step up. If someone in our immediate circle has mental issues that needs reported and especially if they are trying to access/own firearms. In most all of these cases if these people were reported and guns taken, or a block to purchase...

[Geeman]

    I think the bigger issue is keeping them out of the wrong hands before they can use them.

That means we as a people need to step up. If someone in our immediate circle has mental issues that needs reported and especially if they are trying to access/own firearms. In most all of these cases if these people were reported and guns taken, or a block to purchase...

Problem is, who decides?   How much power does that authority have?  I've been around long enough that I realize that if a government is given a crack, before long you will be able to drive a truck through it.  If they don't want YOU to have a gun, they simply question your mental health, then bye-bye the firearms and you get to check all the boxes that say that when you want to purchase the next firearm.

After all, you must be kinda macho crazy if you even want to touch a gun. You want to train with the self defense guys, would make you paranoid after all. 

I think I'll go with "shall not be infringed" and call it good.

Greg

[Geeman]

4) Stop Plea Bargaining Gun Violations. If an illegal drug user is caught in the course of transporting illegal drugs and has a gun in his possession at the time, or a burglar breaks into a home and steals a gun or is in possession of a gun at the time, include the gun charge, do not plea bargain it down. If a gun is one of the items stolen, Prosecute Properly, don't just write it off as "Theft if Personal Property."

This...  Yes... as long as the gun is associated with a crime against people of their property, the full weight of the law should be brought to bear against the  wrongdoer.

Greg

[Intercooler]

That's just it... nobody out there period has the mental policy to get it done. We seem to be at the end of normal checks and balances!