Live Round Stovepipes? RIA 1911

Reverendpdp · September 30 2015 03:05:56 PM MDT

You are my last hope before this gun goes back to the mother ship. Originally my RIA TAC Ultra 10mm (Commander size) gun ran flawlessly until I had it Cerakoted. Now I'm getting live round stovepipes and bolt-over-base FTFs with just about every mag. It's occurring on the last two rounds of my mags. It does it with all mags (Tripp, Chip M, Kimber, RIA, and Metalform) and with all FMJ ammo (Am. Eag., Armscor, Sig, PMC, reloads). It also occurs with a flat bottom FPS and the regular FPS.

The function of the gun is very smooth and I'm pretty certain the slide is not binding on any part of the frame. This was one of the first things I checked. From my research, I believe the slide is short stroking but don't know why or how exactly to go about fixing it. RIA has given me a return authorization to send them the gun (they warranty the internals and non-Cerakoted parts), but I don't really want to do that... at least not yet. The 4-6 week wait would kill me.

According to RIA the stock RS is 24# and the MS is 25# for my gun. So I ordered a set of 22, 24 and 26# RS to experiment... in the event my RS went bad. I also ordered a new plug and guiderod just as a preventive measure. Additionally, I'm replacing one of the springs on one of my mags (Tripp) with a heavier version. BTW anyone know where I can get heavier 10mm springs for my mags? Wolff doesn't have them.

I'm not seeing how the MSH spring weight would affect this malfunction, so I haven't ordered any MS to play with. I also don't see where the Cerakote could be causing this? Maybe where the barrel lugs fit?

As I said, I'm guessing it's a slow moving or short-stroking slide, but I'm real new to this so I could be way off? Does anyone have any input on the remedy? Heavier or lighter RS?

[attachment deleted by admin]

Reverendpdp · September 30 2015 03:23:29 PM MDT

Another pic...
Most FTF's have been like the pic in the previous post.

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The_Shadow · September 30 2015 05:30:11 PM MDT

Well does the cerakote also cover the area where the barrel slides up into the slide notches?
Are you seeing any wear on the cerakote at these notches that are being rubbed?

The barrel slides upward and forward to achieve barrel lock up in the slide!

However, It seems they are flipping upward, like they are not sliding up the breech face to get under the extractor and slammed into the barrel hood to be trapped. On the 1911 style pistols the recoil spring needs to be such that it allows the slide to run all the way back and allow the fresh round to fully pop to the top before it slides it forward to battery.

Different impulse ammo can be just right, too weak or too strong as the impulse is translated to the slide action.

You may need to play with the RS to provide the best results providing the cerakote is not hampering some area of slide travel and barrel movement returning to battery.

sqlbullet · September 30 2015 06:54:37 PM MDT

Looks to me like whomever disassembled your slide for the cerakote changed the tension on your extractor. This is lack of proper controlled feed at work, and the fact the extractor has been out and back in makes it very much the prime candidate.

With the gun field stripped, you should be able to slide a round under the extractor and have it held tight against the face of the slide. If it won't stay there on it's own as you move the slide, then it is too loose.

The_Shadow · September 30 2015 07:57:48 PM MDT

Sqlbullet, this is the live round being shoved up into the barrel hood or standing trapped. I don't think that they are even getting up the breech face to engage the space between the breech face and the extractor. But trying to get a handle on this one is somewhat puzzling... ${$default_huh_smiley}$

Reverendpdp · September 30 2015 08:57:15 PM MDT

According to some of the Wilson Combat vids I've seen about testing extractor tension, the tension on mine seems to be fine. Live round stays against breech face until i shape it vigorously.

Reverendpdp · September 30 2015 09:07:57 PM MDT

Quote from: The_Shadow on September 30 2015 05:30:11 PM MDT
Well does the cerakote also cover the area where the barrel slides up into the slide notches?
Are you seeing any wear on the cerakote at these notches that are being rubbed?

The barrel slides upward and forward to achieve barrel lock up in the slide!

However, It seems they are flipping upward, like they are not sliding up the breech face to get under the extractor and slammed into the barrel hood to be trapped. On the 1911 style pistols the recoil spring needs to be such that it allows the slide to run all the way back and allow the fresh round to fully pop to the top before it slides it forward to battery.

Different impulse ammo can be just right, too weak or too strong as the impulse is translated to the slide action.

You may need to play with the RS to provide the best results providing the cerakote is not hampering some area of slide travel and barrel movement returning to battery.

With the internals removed the slide slides freely on frame rails until it gets to disconnector. I'm not seeing any areas that are binding. I did rack the slide a few thousand times to loosen the fit a tad.

When you suggest to play with the RS, would you recommend going up in weight or down? Right now it's a 24#. I have a 22 and 26# arriving in the next few days.
Also will the spring weight in the MSH have any bearing on these misfeeds?

The_Shadow · September 30 2015 09:46:39 PM MDT

I would first suggest going lower recoil spring weight, 22lb seems about right for most ammo. However you may need a 20lb to test the results. The MS is probably fine...

sqlbullet · October 01 2015 08:09:58 AM MDT

Gonna ask the obvious....Does it do this with all magazines or just one? (I assume you have them numbered if you have more than one and are tracking which mags have failures.)

Reverendpdp · October 01 2015 08:13:27 AM MDT

Quote from: sqlbullet on October 01 2015 08:09:58 AM MDT
Gonna ask the obvious....Does it do this with all magazines or just one? (I assume you have them numbered if you have more than one and are tracking which mags have failures.)

Yea ALL mags: RIA, Metalform, Kimber, Tripp and Chip Mc...
AND all the failures occur on the last or second-to-last round of those mags...

my_old_glock · October 03 2015 10:24:36 AM MDT

I also think it might be short stroking. I have had similar problems with a gun (can't remember which one) when I slowly lower the slide on a full magazine.

I suggest you oil EVERYTHING. Use real oil. Not any type of miracle wonder gun oil. Baby oil would probably work if that is all you have. Cooking oil would also work (Fireclean), but it will eventually turn to a glue type substance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9bOT_d60LM

.

Reverendpdp · October 07 2015 10:17:50 AM MDT

Just a thought in this perplexing malfunction...
Is it possible that the combination of Cerakote which is actually quite slick, AND the loosening of the slide to frame fit has made the slide rack faster than usual? Could it be that the stock recoil spring of 24# is now too strong?

I'm not sure if it's a common practice to reduce RS weight on a 1911 after it's been sufficiently broken in???

sqlbullet · October 08 2015 12:46:09 PM MDT

I would try a lighter recoil spring. Been doing some reading on this kind of malfunction in a 1911. It is commonly called a bolt over base malfunction apparently. It occurs when the slide doesn't properly pick up the new round by the base. The bolt (slide in this case fills this role) goes partially over the base, then strips the round the rest of the way, resulting in a very nose-up presentation.

Causes that are relevant to the 1911 platform:

Slide does not travel fully to the rear (short stroke)
Slide moves forward too quickly
Case head does not rise up from the magazine quickly enough when exposed by the action
Case head does not rise up far enough when exposed by the action.

I think since the cerakote the slide moves back forward faster than the magazine spring can get that last round or two pushed up. So, either a lighter recoil spring or a stronger mag spring. Since I generally think 24# is too much for a 1911 anyway I would say get thee a lighter spring. (My own 1911's run a 25# mainspring, flat bottom firing pin stop and 18.5# recoil spring for 10mm.)

Let us know once you find a cure.

Osageid · October 08 2015 12:57:42 PM MDT

I am watching this closely as my new RIA doin the same , I will not modify anything on mine for now as this is not a carry gun- only did it twice. Will shoot it more first

Pinsnscrews · October 09 2015 12:41:42 PM MDT

Are these all new magazines?
How easy is it to load the first two bullets going into the magazines?
Does it happen if you only load 6 rounds into the magazine? 7 rounds? 4 rounds?
Is there wear on the feed lips of the magazine where the slide may be contacting the tops of the feed lips?
Did they cerakote the bottom of the breach block area? The face that slides across the top of the magazine.
Can you pull the magazines out without using the mag release?