Underwood Ammo: Possible Hard Primers or is it Me?

[mt10mm]

Bought three boxes of the 180gr FMJ few weeks ago for my G20 and I have had 0 issues with 100rds fired

[Johnny Gunz]

I really appreciate all the replies gents.  For clarification, the LW barrel is a .40 S&W conversion and is great.  The 10 barrel is stock G29.  This is a lot of very good info and it may very well be me.  I'm used to shooting Glock 9s and my grip doesn't shift.  I also shoot thumbs forward, with my slide rarely locking back on an empty mag.  This together could be doing exactly what y'all suspect.  I'm going to check on that as soon as I get on the range.  Thanks again guys.  This makes me feel better as I really wanted that ammo to work.  I'll update as soon as I get it figured out.

[captaintrips]

I have a stock 29 gen 3.  I had a failure to fire/light strike/bad primer on an Underwood 180 Gold Dot a few years ago.  It only happened once but the primer looked a lot like the picture above.

No idea if the gun or the round were at fault.  I will say it was the within the first 100 rounds through the 29 and it was right after I fixed a return to battery issue with a new recoil spring.

I've also had an issue with the slide not locking back after the last round, but I believe that is user error......

[4949shooter]

JohnnyGunz,

I had a bad batch of Underwood a while back. It was the 165 grain Gold Dot. I contacted Underwood via email, explained the issue, which was light loaded rounds. Cody Craig from Underwood emailed me back and said he would notify their development team on the issue, and sent me a coupon for another ammo purchase to make up for it (I don't remember how much). I thanked Cody for his help.

I then ordered some more 165 grain Gold Dot to replace the bad batch I had gotten. I mean, bad batches can happen with ALL ammo manufacturers, right? I then went to the range and fired the ammo again. This time I had more failure to fires and light loaded rounds. I brought the empty ammo boxes home and checked the lot number. Underwood had sent me replacement ammo from the same bad lot.

I took the time to email Cody again. This is what I had sent:

Cody,

Regarding the earlier below emails, I received an order of 3 boxes of 165 grain Gold Dot from the same lot #(005). I had three failures to fire this time out of the 60 rounds.

I didn't realize I had been sent the same lot number again. I think you should be aware of this lot as being problematic.

Please look into this issue. I have been a big fan of your ammo but now I am starting to question it.

Cody responded with this:

Cody Craig <sales@underwoodammo.com>  Jul 20 at 11:56 AM
To   
'Nick
Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I will definitely make note of this and let the developing team know.

Now, as a faithful Underwood customer, let's say I am more than a little disappointed in the response. Underwood ammo has always been superb. Their service has always been great. But, this response from them sending me more of the same bad ammo, and saying they will notify their development team again, all the while never removing the bad batch of ammo, is disconcerting to say the least.

I am not one to bash ammo makers on forums. As you can see from the email date I held on to this for months. But since you bring up a similar issue, I thought it to be appropriate to bring up the issue now.

Underwood is by far my favorite ammo company, especially for 10mm and .357 Sig. But for now, I have lost confidence in their ammo for carry, as well as their handling of this problem.

If Kevin sees this post, I certainly hope he takes the steps to make this right. I wish to continue to be an Underwood customer in the future.

[sqlbullet]

I work for a customer service outsourcing company.  Biggest one in the world in fact.

It is entirely possible that Cody is completely disassociated with the production floor.  In fact, he may not even be a direct Underwood employee.  He probably has a script and a CRM tool and logs a case that is assigned to the load development team.

maybe not, but the responses certainly sound to me more like scripted process.

[Intercooler]

I'm just sitting over here looking to get my first non-firing Underwood round in four calibers 

In all the ammo I have fired... one .44 not fully seated and one squib 10mm. Everything else has went bang!

[tommac919]

In all the ammo I have fired... one .44 not fully seated and one squib 10mm. Everything else has went bang!

always better the two scenarios you had over a ka-boom from double load.

[4949shooter]

I work for a customer service outsourcing company.  Biggest one in the world in fact.

It is entirely possible that Cody is completely disassociated with the production floor.  In fact, he may not even be a direct Underwood employee.  He probably has a script and a CRM tool and logs a case that is assigned to the load development team.

maybe not, but the responses certainly sound to me more like scripted process.

Could be. This might explain the apparent lack of urgency and concern.

[Johnny Gunz]

I was at the range and was able to get 30-40 rounds of UW through the G29 without any issues.  I really can't say what happened with those two FTF rounds.  Comparing the firing pin marks, the problem round I kept sure looks like it took a lighter hit than the rest.  But, the off-center hit appears normal.  The FP hits deepest off-center.  The FP and channel are GTG.  As well, the breech face and all is good.  There's not anything mechanically which would appear to cause a light hit.  I'm not sure what to think.  Nothing changed except the rounds.  Maybe it was a couple of fluke hard primers.  It happens.  I'll continue to monitor things and if it happens again, I'll let everyone know.  Unfortunately, there is a question mark hanging over this ammo in my mind.  As well, the lack of CS response is disappointing.

[The_Shadow]

The not knowing is a real question mark for sure!  Glad to hear it running better... 

[my_old_glock]

You may want to inspect the striker, striker spring, channel and spring cups that they are clean, free of any debris or damage.  Oil, carbon, debris, plating form primers inside the striker channel can slow the forward progress leading to a light or no strike condition...

I don't see why more people do not clean the firing pin channel. It only takes a few minutes. The backing plate and firing pin assembly can be removed with the slide still on the gun. The extractor channel can also be cleaned at the same time. Quick and easy.


.

[DM1906]

I was at the range and was able to get 30-40 rounds of UW through the G29 without any issues.  I really can't say what happened with those two FTF rounds.  Comparing the firing pin marks, the problem round I kept sure looks like it took a lighter hit than the rest.  But, the off-center hit appears normal.  The FP hits deepest off-center.  The FP and channel are GTG.  As well, the breech face and all is good.  There's not anything mechanically which would appear to cause a light hit.  I'm not sure what to think.  Nothing changed except the rounds.  Maybe it was a couple of fluke hard primers.  It happens.  I'll continue to monitor things and if it happens again, I'll let everyone know.  Unfortunately, there is a question mark hanging over this ammo in my mind.  As well, the lack of CS response is disappointing.

Pardon me if I sound blunt, but if you get any strikes that far off center, even once, your gun is broken.

Most all common primers have a very small "sweet spot" in the center of the primer. Strike outside of that with a typical striker/pin, it won't fire. The anvil (internal fluted disc) has a small center pin that the primer case strikes against, causing ignition of the compound. It's no surprise that round didn't fire.

As far as the strike appearing light/shallow, it should. It hasn't fired. Firing, especially high/full pressure rounds like UW's, will force the primer against the breach and striker, making it appear deeper, often embossing the striker channel hole onto the primer, exaggerating it further. The strike pictured appears deep enough to have caused a discharge, had it struck center.

I suggest checking very carefully, the locking block, locking block frame channel, pins, pin holes, barrel locking lugs and FP safety. Better yet, just send it in. Any healthy Glock pistol simply should not allow a striker fall that far off center. Ever. If it does, it's broken.

[Intercooler]

Very good points!

   What would allow that much travel off-center? I'm not real up on striker-fired pistols and can't picture how the firing pin could go through the opening being that far off.

[sqlbullet]

Might not be the firing pin not centered in the channel.  It could be the barrel not seating quite fully into battery.  This would cause off-center high strikes.  Or an out-of-spec barrel might center the bore too high in the breech, resulting in off-center low strikes.

[DM1906]

Very good points!

   What would allow that much travel off-center? I'm not real up on striker-fired pistols and can't picture how the firing pin could go through the opening being that far off.

It can't, unless it's broken.