Underwood Ammo: Possible Hard Primers or is it Me?

[Johnny Gunz]

Has anyone here experienced hard primers/failures to fire with Underwood ammo?  I have a new Gen. 4 Glock 29.  I ordered 3 boxes of the UW 180 TMJ believing it would be great for paper and woodland carry.  The ammo was shipped within about 30 minutes of ordering and I was stoked.

When I received it, it looked high quality from the box to the individual rounds.  When I went to the range, I shot a partial box since I didn't have much time.  I also fired some very old Winchester Silver Tips and some Federal .40 through a Lone Wolf conversion barrel.  I had one UW round take a good primer hit but FTF.  Knowing this can happen and that most will go a second time, I ran it again and it went off.  Everything else worked flawlessly.

The second time at the range, the same thing happened.  Two failures to fire in total, each with a good primer hit, within 40 rounds!  Less than one box of ammo and two malfunctions.  I took photos of that round and put it away.  I have been shooting for a long time and have seen hard/bad primers with the big name manufacturers, so I know it can happen.  But to have it happen twice in 40 rounds is unacceptable.

On Sept. 12 (I know, it was a Saturday), I sent UW an email through their website explaining the situation and that I could no longer trust that ammo for anything except plinking.  Since there was no option to attach a pic in their system, I told them to contact me if they wanted the pics.

I've heard nothing from UW.  I expected them to want to know batch info.  I thought they may even offer to replace the left over two boxes (honestly, that's the least I would expect), but I've heard nothing.

I'm pretty upset because I really thought I'd found the company and the round to feed my G29.  Has anyone else experienced this before?  I hate for my first post to be negative, but I've been a lurker and 1) wanted to know if this is common with them, and 2) wanted to let people know what I experienced in case it happens to them.  If I can, I'll try to post some pics soon, though I may be unable for a while.

PS. The gun shoots great.  I'm also extremely pleased with the LW .40 barrel.  $89 on sale and it is beautiful (with the small logo) and shoots great.

[radiotom]

How many rounds have you run through the gun? Might be time to replace the striker spring. I do it every 500 rounds in my Glock 20 or else I start getting light strikes.

[The_Shadow]

You may want to inspect the striker, striker spring, channel and spring cups that they are clean, free of any debris or damage.  Oil, carbon, debris, plating form primers inside the striker channel can slow the forward progress leading to a light or no strike condition...

[Johnny Gunz]

The gun has less than 150 rounds.  The primer hits look really good.  They're not shallow at all.  UW was the only brand out of three to FTF.  It's puzzling since I hear so much good about the company and the rounds looked high quality in every way.  I'm guessing it was just a bad batch of primers.  I know it's a primer issue, not something UW did.  I do hate that I now have $60 of questionable ammo though.  Plus, I'll have to get some trigger time with a number of flawless UW rounds to build confidence in the brand.  I wish they would've contacted me.  As it is, I'm left with the impression they're not too concerned.

Shadow, I've seen light strikes, that's why I explained in the OP that these primers took solid hits.  BTW, not sure why the rolling eyes emoji was used.  I've been shooting for a very long time.  I'm also a Glock armorer.

Thanks guys.

[The_Shadow]

Johnny welcome to the forum, BTW nothing was meant by the eyes...However you being an armorer I would suspect you would have checked those things I mentioned out...Sometimes the simplest can have you second guessing.

I would agree that primers can be the problem, back in the day when Glocks started to make it to market, many primers were too hard for the striker fired pistols reliability, therefore companies made softer primers to compensate for this.

I will say I have seen the slightest amount of debris slow the striker travel, it can be different between shots and be an issue with a piece of plating or a pierced primer that pushed a jet of gas inside the channel.

Recently I had a small piece of cast bullet roll up and stick to the edge of the end of my chamber, it was enough to cause a light strike situation.  Once it was removed all was good.

Best regards!

[Johnny Gunz]

Shadow, thanks for the explanation.  I thought your post was positive, that's why I was confused.  My agency experienced failures to fire with 9mm a few years ago.  We, the FI's, assumed it was an issue with the guns (G26's) at first.  We were checking the things you mentioned.  Then we saw it happening with MP5's and knew there was an issue.  It turned out to be a bad production run by a big name manufacturer.  On my issue, I ran more Fed. .40 through the gun than 10mm, and it was flawless.  I'll try to post a pic and see what you guys think of the primer hit.  I'd much rather it be a bit of debris than bad ammo.  That stuff isn't cheap!  Thanks again and glad we got things cleared up.

[t4terrific]

I have had no trouble, yet.

[Johnny Gunz]

Sorry for the gigantic size .  Opinions are welcome, so please let me know what you think.  Thanks.

[Intercooler]

Pictures?

[Intercooler]

  Got it! I see one way off-center. Anything else?

[Johnny Gunz]

I noticed the off center hit as well. I can't say I paid attention to the rest of the brass, which I gave to a friend who loads 10. Does the hit mean anything to you guys?  It seems no one else, so far anyway, has had the problem which indicates either my gun is the problem or its isolated to a small batch of ammo. Since my gun handled the other brands well, I have to suspect the ammo.

[The_Shadow]

I looks like a light strike, but another thing that comes to mind here is the primer may not have been fully seated and moved forward when struck.  I have seen some Starling brass exhibit slightly loose primer pockets, that led to primers popping out when shot.  Underwood I think contracts with Starline...

[Johnny Gunz]

Interesting. Could that cause the off center hit?  Thanks again for the help.

[Geeman]

To me, I'd say off center and light strike.  I'd guess a tight chamber that caused a round that was close to fully chambered, close enough for the striker to release, but the round went into battery upon being hit.

Lone wolf are generally too tight.  I stopped using my LW and stuck to stock Glock and my problems went away.  Bang each and every time, except UW 220g hard cast.  Mine doesn't feed them worth a damn.

Greg

[The_Shadow]

Thinking about the off center hit and being a light strike a slightly out of battery position with the cartridge being low and off centered such as the case head wedged and not sliding completely under the extractor.  What can cause that?  Thicker or dented case extractor rim, sticky, tight or bent extractor trapping the case rim.  These can be hard to understand if the slide moves into complete battery when the striker taps the cartridge knocking the slide into full battery without ignition.

Slide being dry or dirty could add to a lazy return to battery.

I'm not an expert and I'm not saying this is the definitive answer, but things to think about as the firearm is a dynamic tool, with moving parts and ammunition trying to fit the chamber during the cycle of timing with the moving parts...Underwood ammo has a higher impulse that increases the slide velocity during the rearward travel.  This also translates to the shooter having recoil impulse to his or her grip.  This has shifted shooters grip as such, that their thumbs can ride the slide and even engage the slide lock.  The ammo can shift in the magazine due to the impulse as well.
Short of having a high speed camera recording this kind of stuff and view it at slow motion playback it would not be easy to see and study.