Woods carry Ammo choice

[DAVIDF]

The TMJ is very different than a genuine FMJ. It's a soft-lead, swaged, plated bullet. They don't experience jacket separation the same as jacketed bullets do, but they do deform like a swaged lead bullet (not unlike Hornady lead bullets). This makes the nose shape and meplat less of a performance factor, compared to hard-cast flat-nose bullets. Add to that, the plating thickness and hardness can vary a lot from manufacturer to manufacturer, and some of them lot to lot. They aren't designed nor intended to be used as a hunting or defense bullet, but that doesn't mean they won't be effective in those situations, at least sometimes.

The TMJ may work very well for hunting actually. There is a guy over on a Marlin forum who uses 240gr TMJ in a 444 for hunting Elk and swears by them. Like you are saying they can deform but not very likely to have jacket separation as they are bonded like Speer's Gold Dot. Gold Dot's do very well in barrier blind tests such as thru safety glass that requires a very tough bullet to perform well. I think the TMJ would hold together even better, but have not seen any tests.

Apples and oranges. I don't disagree that some TMJ bullets my be well suited for effective hunting, caliber/cartridge notwithstanding. I would use them, if not for the legalities. However, a bonded jacket bullet, especially a hollowpoint such as the GDHP, is very different than any TMJ, HP or otherwise. Very few TMJ bullets (copper electro-plate, by definition), are capable of higher velocities, even many pistol velocities. The most popular TMJ/plated bullets in many pistol calibers actually do very poorly, with only a couple exceptions. Berry's .41M and .44M are the only exceptions I've found (none of Ranier's did), while X-treme .40 and .45 HP's do very well, 1400-2000+ FPS. Copper plated rifle bullets are a different animal, and designed for the much higher velocities. A 240 gr. .444 at 2300+ FPS is hardly comparable to a 180 gr. 10mm at 1200 FPS, in almost any context.

Yes, I agree. For clarity, I was referring only to Speer's TMJ which, correct me if I am wrong, is bonded like their Gold Dots. That is the bullet that Underwood uses for their "Full Metal Jacket" loads.

As I said, I don't disagree that some "TMJ" bullets may be suited for other duties. However, a TMJ bullet is not "bonded" or "jacketed", in the same sense as is a bonded or jacketed bullet. Every TMJ/plated bullet is "bonded", by the nature of the process, but is only bonded in the same sense the chrome on your truck bumper is "bonded". Bonded jacketed bullets can be such due to their unique process, because the jacket is a pre-formed shell/cup, with a soft lead core swaged into them. Also, there are several process options to "bond" a true jacketed bullet, mechanical (adhesive, cor-lok, etc.) chemical, induction, electrolytical, among a few, all varying in their unique performance values. The Speer TMJ bullet may acceptable for "woods defense", as claimed by Underwood, but I find their product labeling misleading, perhaps disingenuous. They label them "FMJ", while they are, in fact, "TMJ", or more appropriately, plated. They are not the same, although most consumers wouldn't know the difference, or wouldn't care, and probably wouldn't see any difference in the result. Speer is one brand among many, and as we know, no one brand is the best in any category. Without actually testing them (I haven't), I remain skeptical as to the their TMJ's comparative quality.

If you read Speer's catalog (http://www.speer-bullets.com/resources/catalog/speerbullets-catalog/offline/2013_Speer_Catalog.pdf) the TMJ and Gold Dot appear to be bonded in the exact same manner. In fact, Speer refers to their TMJ as a using Uni-Cor technology which as everyone knows, Speer allows other ammo manufacturers to label their Gold Dots as such. They swage the core the same way as their Gold Dots. So, yes, the Speer TMJ and the Gold Dot are manufactured the same way. With the only difference being the open hollow point of the Gold Dot.

[DM1906]

I tremendously dislike flogging deceased equine, but....

No, it doesn't work that way. I don't care what they call it, it is what it is. A jacket is not a plate, a plate is not a jacket. The GDHP begins life as a copper tube and a copper plated swaged lead core. The TMJ (and GDHP core) begins life as a lead wire, swaged to shape, then copper is plated onto it. This also spells the difference between FMJ and TMJ. FMJ bullets have either an exposed or a capped lead base. The reason being, that they are made exactly the same as traditional JHP bullets, except the core is swaged from the base rather than the point. The "bonded" label applies to the method of adhering or affixing a jacket to a core. The TMJ plating process, by its very nature, is "bonded", but in no way, the same as the former. Any bullet that is completely encapsulated is, in fact, plated. "TMJ" is, in fact, a misnomer. The GDHP is unique, in that the jacket is a copper tube that is glued (bonded) and swaged onto a plated base/core. The trademark "gold dot" is nothing more than the top of the TMJ core, visible through a hole in the HP cavity.

That said, in my experience, Speer makes fine bullets, and the GDHP is as good as any high performance HP handgun bullet. Better? No. I like/use them a lot, but they separate and lose mass just as often/much as any other common HP bullet, such as XTP or Zero. They do hold together well at extreme velocities. However, those velocities far exceed the wildest capabilities of any 10mm Auto handgun.

Snake oil never once cured tuberculous, even though some were labeled and claimed exactly that. Most didn't even contain any snake oil.