Here we Go Again!

[sqlbullet]

The 1911 was designed in a different time, with different manufacturing standards.  It can be plenty reliable, but that is expensive (pay others) and/or time consuming (learn to run files yourself) to accomplish.

I personally LOVE the 1911, but am not going to say it doesnt have it's shortcomings.  It is not for everyone.  In fact, mine has ridden the safe since Shadow posted the link to the Vickers video as I have been running the Witness.  Today, Glock 29.  Not sure when it will get rotated back to the front of the dance line.

With regard to the article, it was reasonably well written, but did lack diversity in the test offerings of both ammo and guns.  I was also sade not to see mention of the Sig P220 10mm.  I wanted to give the author the benefit of the doubt that maybe the article was written before the P220 was announced, but then he mentioned the Sig 10mm ammo.  Both announcements were together.

As to whether the 1911 is being rammed down our throats, or whether these gun rags are just pandering to what the typical reader wants, I can't say.  Certainly there is a more lucrative aftermarket moneypile for skilled 1911 smiths than for Glock smiths.  That may indeed play into it.

[The_Shadow]

Centimeter writes;

Shadow, do you agree?

Yes, it is why I wrote this post. 

I don't dislike the 1911's, it is a fine design and pistol.  Is Colt Delta Elite, Double Eagle or Gold Cup, perfect, NO!  There is room for improvements.  This was clearly evident with Clark/Para/Lissner/Wilson and Nowlin barrels.  There are many other patterned from the 1911 style and the S&W 10xx series 3rd Generations are a testament to the improvements and variations that could be made although they were designed primarily for law enforcement.  Things like slide mounted decockers of the 1006/1066  & frame mounted decockers of the 1026/1076 and the Double Action Only 1046/1086, they also held 9+1 cartridges.  The ramped barrel design with better chamber support for the higher pressure cartridges like the 10mm.  In the world of the Glock, they are simplistic, using far fewer parts in the design, while having safety built in and the use of polymers for the frames to lessen weight and also increase cartridge capacity at reasonable prices.  Such as the 10+1 for the G-29 and 15+1 for the G-20.  The EAA's are another example of pistols with variations of single action-double action, barrel lengths and capacities to bring about other shooter disciplines. 

It is the constant rubbing the 1911/45ACP in peoples' faces, like it is the only pistol/cartridge that ever existed that bugs me. 

Now go back and think about the 45ACP history, it was too slow, so various people develop 45 Super, 45 Winchester Magnum, 38-45, 40 Super, 45GAP and 460 Rowland all seeking a little something more than the original 45ACP offering.

Along came the 10mm Auto to take its place, as a ballistically capable cartridge, to try and satisfy the what was lacking.  It is a very capable cartridge, from mild to wild, of doing what is needed from the semi auto platform.  The bullet designs are somewhat of a hinderance, as they are geared more to the 40S&W performance these days.  When pushed to true 10mm performance levels we see some broken up projectiles.  However quality projectiles do exist and when paired with good loading they perform extremely well to satisfy the demand of the 10mm shooters.

Many of you know that I also have the 9x25 conversions, this was just an interesting design that I admired and being a handloader wanted to play with.  Brass for the 40S&W and 357SIG were plentiful so I began harvesting those cartridge casings, enough so that it was only logical to have conversion barrels for them as well.  These conversions provided me with a flexibility to enjoy them as well from from the same pistol, same sight picture and trigger feel.

So in closing, don't mind me.  I am probably just getting older and spend too much time reading about my passion and less time being able to get out in the field to hunt and shoot like I used too! 

[Centimeter]

It is the constant rubbing the 1911/45ACP in peoples' faces, like it is the only pistol/cartridge that ever existed that bugs me.   

Hear, hear!

[agtman]

I'd venture to say there are more Glocks being used in the 10mm offering because of price and availability * * * 

Not to mention, that Glock owns the 10mm with respect to the factors of reliability AND magazine capacity.

The Tanfoglio 10mms compete on mag capacity, but not necessarily in reliability.

[Geeman]

I'd venture to say there are more Glocks being used in the 10mm offering because of price and availability * * * 

Not to mention, that Glock owns the 10mm with respect to the factors of reliability AND magazine capacity.

The Tanfoglio 10mms compete on mag capacity, but not necessarily in reliability.

Bad news if your a Glock fan.  The full size Tanfoglio with K10 mags is absolutely and utterly reliable with absolutely any ammo without reservation.  I cannot say the same about the G20 I own.  Sure, I can make or choose ammo that is reliable, but I can also make or buy ammo that is NOT reliable also.  The Tanfoglio will also handle loads that would blow the magazine out of the glock and leave it in need a frame to boot.

I have both and the ONLY things the Glock has over my Limited Pro is weight (lighter) and I would be able to drop the Glock in a sand box and I think I'd be able to get it running in short order and the tight tolerances of the Tanfoglio would require dis-assembly to clean it up.

Greg

[Pinsnscrews]

One thing to keep in mind, EAA is notorious in the Publishing world for NOT providing a gun for testing. I was disappointed they did not include a Glock in the testing, possibly not even attampting to get one, or, because they had been provided several 'other' caliber Glocks, were refused a 10mm.

[my_old_glock]

...

If you want to see something, pick up any gun magazine and count the times that 1911 and 45ACP are displayed or mentioned.  It is like they are the only combination that exist.  Every gun maker has their own 1911, after all the CNC info was public at one time. 

Between around 2001 and 2010, I tossed every issue of American Rifleman in the garbage without reading it because I became so sick of seeing 1911's and AR-15's displayed on the cover every month. I had a 5 year subscription to Guns&Ammo, and that magazine ended up in the trash as well.


.

[Wolfie]

I agree I am a 1911 fan but I am also tired of seeing them and ARs on every cover.

Same reason I don't buy Car Craft and Hot Rod anymore too many Camaros and Chevelles.

[Centimeter]

I agree I am a 1911 fan but I am also tired of seeing them and ARs on every cover.

Same reason I don't buy Car Craft and Hot Rod anymore too many Camaros and Chevelles.

I sometimes make a mental wager with myself whether there will be a 1911 or an AR-15 on the cover when I walk by the magazine rack and see magazines like American Rifleman or Guns and Ammo... Sadly I almost always win because there's usually some combination of one or both of them, if not at the very least a mention of them somewhere on the cover. I get that they sell a bunch of them and that they're apparently über-popular but I'd think at some point they wouldn't constantly need so much advertisement. Like, seriously, are there people out there in the gun world that don't know or haven't heard about 1911s or AR-15s yet? The same is true of Camaros and Mustangs; pretty much everyone knows those things exist. We don't need to constantly be reminded that those are cars that are available.

[my_old_glock]

The 1911 was designed in a different time, with different manufacturing standards.  It can be plenty reliable, but that is expensive (pay others) and/or time consuming (learn to run files yourself) to accomplish.

I personally LOVE the 1911, but am not going to say it doesnt have it's shortcomings.  It is not for everyone.

It is like an old motorcycle or car. There are better ones made today, but there is something special about driving/riding a piece of machinery that was made 50+ years ago.

[sqlbullet]

I like that comparison to engines.

Can you imagine a engine from a Ford Model T with just a bit of tuning being a serious competitor in the world of racing.  Or even a common choice for the morning commute?

I suppose you could argue that the V8 is a more apt comparison since Cadillac put one in a car in 1914.  But for it to be a fair comparison, you would still have to see a huge number of V8 engines using that same Type 51 block with its hugely under-square 3.125" bore and 5.125 stroke.  It is really rare to see any V8 engines that are even square these days, except for the Ford Powerstroke diesels.

[Buckeye 50]

Part of me hopes (selfishly) the 10mm doesn't get too popular, as I feel I have found the near perfect balance of power and functionality.  I kind of like keeping it a semi-secret or misunderstood.

Yes, ammo is expensive but without sounding too brash, if you can't afford a few more dollars for expensive ammo, buy a cheaper caliber or find another sport.

Pat

[Raggedyman]

There are a lot of 1911 fanatics out there. My shooting partner lives and breathes 1911. And everything he owns is in 45 ACP. He talks a big talk about getting a 1911 in 10mm, but hasn't pulled the trigger and probably never will.

It's a feedback loop. The gun rags write about 1911s, which fuels interest, which drives sales, which encourages manufacturers, who pay for advertising, which requires gun rags to write about 1911s...


The gun rags have never been interested in disseminating real information. The primary goal has always been to sell ad revenue and the secondary goal is to pander to the majority and not upset their closely held beliefs. This has propped up the image of the .45 ACP as a "man stopper" because the rags are unwilling to discuss the realities of terminal ballistics. The problem is so bad that I recently found myself in a Facebook discussion with a man who earnestly believed that .45 ACP was better at stopping a person than .223/5.56mm.


As for the article, I haven't actually read it, but I was disappointed when I scanned through it and saw DT represented four times but Underwood was never mentioned. If you want to see better treatment for the 10mm and guns that are not 1911s, write them. If every member here writes them, we can expect to see some change. Keep it polite and brief and don't mention this site so as to appear as less of an organized effort.

Here is the email address:  Publications@nrahq.org

[The_Shadow]

I posted this on their page again today...they and other magazines are guilty as charged! 

Well let's talk about the reason why it will never equal that of the 45 or the 9mm... It is because the gun magazines like AR and all the other magazines are being paid to advertise the 9mm and the 45's and oh yea and the 1911's like there are no other cartridges or guns available on the market.

I will say that from mild to wild the 10mm is the best performance cartridge for a semi auto platform to span target shooting, defense and hunting capabilities.

Oh BTW the 10mm guns have an advantage to swap barrels to shoot 40S&W, 357Sig and the 9x25Dillon. Lone Wolf Distributors was one of the companies to exploit these advantages of conversion barrels to bring even more flexibility to the 10mm platform.

[1911baker]

What's wrong with a 10 mm in a 1911 platform? I don't own and would never own a Block (Glock) even if they were giving them away. As far as EAA goes I don't know anything about them other than they are ugly and pale in comparison to a 1911!