Penetration in Ballistic Gelatin

[SCSportsman]

All of these velocity tests are awesome, but I was wondering if anyone has (or will take on) similar data for average penetration and expansion.  Looking for something to compare to the FBI standards and get an idea of what is better for 2 legged perps vs. woods carry.  Particularly interested in the Underwood stuff as that 135 JHP is nasty, but curious as to if the penetration is adequate for self defense.

[Intercooler]

Their are a good many YouTube videos in wax tubes but not many Gel tests. In another month when tnoutdoors9 gets his Glock 20 we will have all the answers. Any of those Underwood rounds will serve you well loaded with the Gold Dots and the 135's might be the bomb for HD. I know they work well on Deer too and are nasty. If you have bigger things in mind the 200 XTP's are amazing at 1300 FPS.

[Intercooler]

I have been waiting on his next 9mm Underwood test and he just posted it minutes ago. Subscribe and wait for the 10's!

Wax

Subscribe to both.

[The_Shadow]

The second video is from Carrier21 in Alabama, he was active at that time on Glock Talk.  He is a nice guy, but he has sort of backed off from the forums...I sent him some of my 156gr cast Lyman devastator bullets to test, that video is somewheres as well.

[4949shooter]

Carrier is good people and I miss his contributions. Well I guess it was the blonde or Glocktalk and the blonde won. 

[Marc]

[pacapcop]

In response to this test,id bet the XTP controlled expansion would fair better.200 grain.

[4949shooter]

PAcop I would like to see TNoutdoors test the 200 grain XTP load. I think we would see penetration out the back of his sim test block into the water jugs.

OTOH, I don't think all the bullet disintegration we saw is necessarily a bad thing. The bullet still penetrated 17 inches, and that expansion and fragmentation would wreak havoc in the human torso. I have a friend (Snowman92D on Glocktalk) who has been to an autopsy where a 10mm bullet was used by a police officer to shoot a felon. Snowman said the 10mm bullet turned the guy's insides to mush.

I would also like to see TNoutdoors test the Underwood Delta Elite load, which is the 180 Gold Dot driven slightly slower, to 1240 fps, due to the less chamber support of this platform.

Marc, thanks for posting. I was waiting to see this test. Hopefully there will be more.

[pacapcop]

4949shooter.I think the Golden Saber would do the same if tested.Reason i mentioned the XTP was more controlled expansion.Your right,it would blast thru gel.

[4949shooter]

The 200 grain XTP was my backup gun load when I hunted predators at night in your state last year, north of Milford. I called in a few bears while calling for coyote.

[EdMc]

Perhaps I don't fully understand what's expected, but a weight retention of 98% for the projectile isn't what I'd call fragmented. Obviously not a perfect mushroom nor rose petal visual.

A quite excellent video either way........good presentation of velocities and of the bullet channel in the media. Thanks for posting. Most videos I skip as I can't read the chrono digital displays very well in the video format.

[Panzer]

I think that test was just fine and think the load tested would be great for PD with all the damage in the block.

[The_Shadow]

The test is a perfect example of exceeding the bullet design parameters.    The bullet will expand to its maximum and with the extra velocity (Underwood's 1300 fps) it will fold back beyond the maximum diameter as shown in this test!   This is why you don't see manufacture's loadings at max loaded velocities, they want max diameter not total penatration.  Also bullet's are designed more for 40S&W than for 10mm ballistic performance.

But keep in mind not all shooting senerios happen close in,  therefore 10mm would work nicely at distance as velocity drops off! 

[Panzer]

The test is a perfect example of exceeding the bullet design parameters.    The bullet will expand to its maximum and with the extra velocity (Underwood's 1300 fps) it will fold back beyond the maximum diameter as shown in this test!   This is why you don't see manufacture's loadings at max loaded velocities, they want max diameter not total penatration.  Also bullet's are designed more for 40S&W than for 10mm ballistic performance.

But keep in mind not all shooting senerios happen close in,  therefore 10mm would work nicely at distance as velocity drops off! 

In reality, the bullet did fail it's design parameters, but one can not deny the damage it caused. 

[The_Shadow]

I have to respectfully disagree about "FAILURE", the Gold Dot bullets are designed to work within a specific velocity parameter.  Any thing exceeding or short of the design parameters does not constitute failure.  Even Hornady has set velocity ranges for the XTP line as well.  This can also be seen in suggested loading data tables for most JHP designs and Self defensive situations call for strict protocols to maintain performance to meet that criterior.  We as handloaders push the limits for different reasons, some for hunting at longer distances and still have acceptable bullet performance.

Because Underwood exceeded the Gold Dot bullet design velocity by producing ammo at 1300+ fps, this allowed the over expansion and jacket seperation as a secondary affect is not a failure of the bullet as designed by Speer.  Speer has bullets designed for short barreled guns which do not produce enough velocity for standard velocity projectiles to expand properly!

Would the Underwood's ammo have done it's job by exceeding the bullet's design specification?  Yes it would have done a remarkable job but may have passed thru the subject...