Video shows cop slapping gun owner

[my_old_glock]

To law enforcement everywhere...  I will NEVER give my consent to a search without a warrant.  I will always insist on a judge hearing the reason they feel it necessary to invade my personal space.  Sorry guys, but any lawyer worth their salt will advise the same.  I expect some level of respect upon letting an officer know that I value my constitutional rights. 

Greg

In California, a law enforcement person can search your car without a warrant IF THEY HAVE PROBABLE CAUSE.

Regardless of what happened before, officers of the law are paid to de-escalate potentially violent situations. This guys is not doing that. I served with bullies like this guy.  I hated being called to back them up and finally got to where I would just send them away when I arrived on scene unless there was an actual melee in progress.

Guys like this are a big part of the reason I left law enforcement.  I realized that someday a jerk like this was going to get me hurt or killed cause they couldn't pay attention in verbal judo class.

Where I live, the police try to escalate a situation so they can make an arrest. They will make smart assed comments trying to get you to say something back at them which justifies them doing whatever they want.

As long as a rifle or shotgun is not loaded its legal in your car.

Partially incorrect. Certain states have requirements of where a firearm may be carried in a vehicle. For instance, even if it is unloaded, if the firearm is in the trunk, the ammo must be locked in the glovebox and vice versa in some states. New York State has differing rules than New York City,but IIRC, they both state a firearm must be carried in the trunk "if so available" rather than in the passenger compartment. The trunk is considered any area behind the rear seats with the rear seats in a proper upright position. NYC in their newest bill stated the Glove Box was not an acceptable carry location for a firearm unless that firearm was in a locked case while in the glove box.

In California, I remember something about a 2 lock rule. You had to go through two locks to get to the gun: 1) Locked trunk. 2) Locked gun case; 1) Locked gun case. 2) cable lock through receiver. I think the ammo also has to be away from the driver.

The gun cannot be in the glove box.


.

[pacapcop]

Same In Penna. Prob cause.

[Geeman]

In California, a law enforcement person can search your car without a warrant IF THEY HAVE PROBABLE CAUSE.

That is actually the way most states give authority to law enforcement.  It's actually a fairly high burden to reach.  The officer would need to prove that he/she had enough factually based knowledge that the subject was likely guilty of a specific crime.  A gun being seen wouldn't reach that level and that officer knew it.  If there was someone who said they saw the person do something illegal with a gun, added to the officer seeing the gun in the car would certainly raise to that level.  The safe thing for the officer to do in that case would be to get a warrant anyway.   

Never consent to a search without a warrant.  If the officer insists anyway, he/she should be able to answer "What crime do you believe I'm guilty of and why do you believe it's me".

Probable cause is the exact same burden the officer has to meet to place you under arrest. 

Greg

[Wolfie]

Geeman is spot on, if the cop had PC, he would have him in cuffs without saying a word.

[4949shooter]

The "probable cause" standard for searching a vehicle is changing in some states. In New Jersey and New Hampshire, you can no longer search a car with probable cause. You need to obtain a consent to search or a warrant. Other states may have this standard as well, or will be coming to it.

An uncased gun is indeed probable cause to search further in some northern states like NY. The fact that he was asking for consent indicates to me that NY State also has this standard fro consent / warrant when PC exists.

[Wolfie]

How does the cop articulate PC with this video?

Its illegal if there is ammo in the gun, does he have x ray vision?

Apparently not, the cop is cooked and the civilian will get paid and the taxpayers get jammed by a dumb cop of 27 years.

All he had was reasonable suspicion (enough to interview as we see on the interview) and was trying to get to PC.

[Wolfie]

http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Saratoga-sheriff-to-discuss-viral-video-5883183.php

Cop resigns, actually he had his 25 so he will keep his pension, could lose health benefits though.

[Intercooler]

http://concealednation.org/2014/11/update-men-who-taped-slap-happy-sheriff-plan-to-sue-county/

[4949shooter]

How does the cop articulate PC with this video?

Its illegal if there is ammo in the gun, does he have x ray vision?

Apparently not, the cop is cooked and the civilian will get paid and the taxpayers get jammed by a dumb cop of 27 years.

All he had was reasonable suspicion (enough to interview as we see on the interview) and was trying to get to PC.

What state are you from? In NJ an uncased gun is PC.

Regardless of PC or RAS, the cop is cooked because he abused two motorists, not because of his search and seizure protocols.

[Wolfie]

NY

This was in way upstate NY, hunting areas.

Most people do not realize, upstate NY is like being in the rural south.

In NY you have Reasonable Suspicion to look further, he should have detained until he got a search warrant.

[DAVIDF]

It's getting more common. I am picking up more and more dislike and hearing the word (Pig) from more of general public. Just saying.

And officers like that are the reason for that. 

The edit was in the hands to the two young gentlemen, so what preceded the footage is unknown.  What I see is relatively calm young men and a deputy dropping f-bombs and calling citizens a-holes.  He should be deeply ashamed of his behavior there, and time off to think about it is the least he deserves.

To law enforcement everywhere...  I will NEVER give my consent to a search without a warrant.  I will always insist on a judge hearing the reason they feel it necessary to invade my personal space.  Sorry guys, but any lawyer worth their salt will advise the same.  I expect some level of respect upon letting an officer know that I value my constitutional rights. 

Greg

I agree with never giving consent. But, one of the exceptions to the requirement of a search warrant is a motor vehicle. This is nation wide, does not pertain to state laws. It relates to precedence established in the Supreme Court ( Carroll v. United States) . Can't insist on a judge hearing the reason. It is not an exception to requiring probable cause, but it is an exception to the requirement to have a judge's ok.

If you give consent, then it probably won't matter whether an officer has probable cause. If you don't give consent, if the officer believes he has probable cause he can proceed and you don't have a choice. If you are charged based on findings from that search there is still a possibility to perhaps argue whether it was a lawful search. If you have given consent, then trying to prove that it is an unlawful search becomes much more difficult to impossible.

Plain view is another exception to the requirement for a search warrant that may apply in this case.

[4949shooter]

NY

This was in way upstate NY, hunting areas.

Most people do not realize, upstate NY is like being in the rural south.

In NY you have Reasonable Suspicion to look further, he should have detained until he got a search warrant.

Problem is....reasonable suspicion is not the standard for a search warrant. You have to have probable cause. RAS will give you a consent only. Plus with RAS you cannot detain them for long. Gotta have PC..

[Wolfie]

Thats why you ask for a judge to give you a search warrant. Why would you need a warrant if you had PC?

[Geeman]

I agree with never giving consent. But, one of the exceptions to the requirement of a search warrant is a motor vehicle. This is nation wide, does not pertain to state laws. It relates to precedence established in the Supreme Court ( Carroll v. United States) . Can't insist on a judge hearing the reason. It is not an exception to requiring probable cause, but it is an exception to the requirement to have a judge's ok.

If you give consent, then it probably won't matter whether an officer has probable cause. If you don't give consent, if the officer believes he has probable cause he can proceed and you don't have a choice. If you are charged based on findings from that search there is still a possibility to perhaps argue whether it was a lawful search. If you have given consent, then trying to prove that it is an unlawful search becomes much more difficult to impossible.

Plain view is another exception to the requirement for a search warrant that may apply in this case.

I must say I don't disagree with a single thing you said.  Spot on.

I'm also a believer in getting the interaction on video.  I'd be letting the officer know I don't consent.  I'd say probable cause is fact/facts that lead to a high probability of my committing a crime, and I'd ask what facts and what crime am I being accused of.  I'd also try to get the officer to state what they believe they will find in this search.  More info is better if you can obtain it.  It might get them to see the bigger picture of what they were contemplating.

If an officer is hell bent on searching, you will not stop him/her.  Don't try.  If they are willing to tread on your rights, they might also decide to put you into some physical or legal jeopardy.  All they need to say is "I smell something" and they are in anyway. 

Greg

[Pinsnscrews]

NY

This was in way upstate NY, hunting areas.

Most people do not realize, upstate NY is like being in the rural south.

In NY you have Reasonable Suspicion to look further, he should have detained until he got a search warrant.

First, a rifle sitting open/uncased on the back seat of a car, in a Hunting area of NY "IS" Probably Cause for Poaching. I am not defending the officer in this instance in any way. His actions were uncalled for.

As has been mentioned, a Vehicle is under different jurisdiction then your home. A vehicle, other than a Motor Home or Travel Trailer, does not require a judge to issue a search warrant. The only requirement is that the officer requesting the search feels strongly enough to explain to a judge His reason for the search. Again, in a rural hunting area, especially during hunting season, fall and spring, a rifle sitting uncased on a seat is probable cause in and of itself under the poaching laws for the state. It is considered "At Hand" for shooting from a vehicle.