What can a .38 Special do?

[Intercooler]

 What can you push a 125, 158 to? Can this see 600+lbs?

[sqlbullet]

Not even with +P ammo.  It will break 400 with some loads.

Of course, Elmer Keith loaded it that hot in heavy revolvers like the 38/44, but that really isn't a 38 special load anymore, it is a 357 mag load in a 38 special case.

[Intercooler]

That's what I was wondering. How Magnum can you go?

[The_Shadow]

It depends on the guns being used, there were plenty 38Spl that were "Air Weight" alloy frames for concealed carry.
Those may not hold up or be rated for +P ammo


Well here is the 180 grain load I use in the S&W Mod 10  2"BBL  (add the barrel length)
Caliber – 38 Special
Powder-Blue Dot 8.0grs
Case – Mixed
Primer – CCI  500
RCBS 180gr Gas Check Silhouette (same amount of bullet inside the casing as the 165 gr cast)
COL – 1.5345"   Sized .358"
Velocity – 950 – feet/per sec
360 ft/lbs

There are several loads that do go over the 400ft/lbs

[my_old_glock]

What can you push a 125, 158 to? Can this see 600+lbs?

You can get 600# from a 20" rifle barrel, but not from a 2", 4", 6", or 8" revolver.



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[sqlbullet]

The Elmer Keith load was 13.5 grains of then 2400 behind a 158 grain lead SWC loaded as long as possible.  Some cast bullet companies make 158 grain SWC bullets with two crimp grooves for this purpose.

That is a load I would only shoot in either 357 mag guns, or a S&W 38/44 heavy duty revolvers.  The Model 20 I think is one of them.

And, that is about as far as you can push a 38 special cartridge.  Even then you are going to have gun specific ammo laying around that sooner or later some fool will stick in a 38 airweight making what is a 13 oz hand grenade.

[wadcutter]

Keith's load was a 173 grain SWC (Lyman 358429) over 13.5 grains of Herc 2400 for 12-1300+ fps depending on barrel length. His 173 grain bullet takes up less case volume than most 158 grain bullets and has a ballistic coefficient of .286. In my humble opinion it's the best all around 38 caliber bullet ever made and possibly the  best cast handgun caliber bullet to this day.

[gandog56]

What can you push a 125, 158 to? Can this see 600+lbs?

You can get 600# from a 20" rifle barrel, but not from a 2", 4", 6", or 8" revolver.

How about my 15" Dan Wesson? 





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[wadcutter]

600lbs muzzle energy is doable with a 4' revolver. Nice revolver by the way.

[The_Shadow]

600lbs muzzle energy is doable with a 4' revolver. Nice revolver by the way.

Not with a 38 casing loaded to 38 Special or +P  specifications that I know of to be fired in 38Spl revolvers.
These are actual 38Spl +P loadings...tested in 6" barrels and actual 357Mag tested in 6" barrels
110 gr +P @ 1190 fps is 345 ft/lb  to reach 600ft/lb it would need to be at 1568 fps  357 mag loads 1737
125 gr +P @ 1085 fps is 362 ft/lb  to reach 600ft/lb it would need to be at 1471 fps  357 mag loads 1602
140 gr +P @ 1067 fps is 353 ft/lb  to reach 600ft/lb it would need to be at 1390 fps  357 mag loads 1490
158 gr +P @ 1051 fps is 387 ft/lb  to reach 600ft/lb it would need to be at 1308 fps  357 mag loads 1350

As shown with real tested data getting there with a 4" gun and inside of 38SPL +P NOT doable...  sorry!

[wadcutter]

True, but in a 357 magnum revolver the 38 can achieve 600 lbs of muzzle energy no problem.

[Pinsnscrews]

True, but in a 357 magnum revolver the 38 can achieve 600 lbs of muzzle energy no problem.

But then it is not a .38spl anymore, it is a .357 Magnum. Basically, the .38spl case is not capable of holding enough powder to provide the velocity needed. It is like getting 10mm performance out of the .40SW.

You "Might" be able to squeeze enough performance out of a .38spl case in a single shot cut for the .357mag, but you would need to load that puppy to the point very little bullet was actually left in the case and then crimped to hold the pressure build up.

[The_Shadow]

Many people do use the 38 casings loaded to 357 performance, but seat the bullets at 357 length.
Difference in casing lengths is only 0.135"
Therefore with proper powders and bullets crimped and seat to 357 specs can yield near the 357 specs.

[wadcutter]

Yup and the 44 special has a maximum oal of 1.615 compared to 1.610 of the 44 magnum. Theoretically it can be loaded to  44 Magnum ballistics. The only reason the 357 and 44 magnum cases are longer is to prevent chambering in 38 and 44 special firearms not strong enough to handle the much higher pressure. In a 10mm revolver the 40S&W case can be used to duplicate and even exceed 10mm loads with the bullets seated out to 10mm length. Some people actually prefer the 40 S&W cases because they use a small pistol primer and are supposedly stronger.

[The_Shadow]

Wadcutter, I prefer to have the proper facts when stating specifics...the 44spl is listed as a 1.615" max, most load data is shown at 1.450"-1.460" with jacket bullets in the standard cannelure, while it is possible to load longer.  I also show data for the 44 mag as long as 1.730" when the standard was 1.620" with the 240 grain jacketed ammo in the standard cannelure.  My reason for making these post is simple; SAFETY!  Some cylinders and actions can be too short for bullets seated beyond the standard COL. or bullets that are longer than standard.

But the original poster asked a specific questions...

What can a .38 Special do?

What can you push a 125, 158 to?

Can this see 600+lbs?

We have shown what it takes to make the 600 ft/lb and it exceeds the standard 38spl+P loads.

People trying to make their cartridges into something that they were not meant to be can get themselves or bystanders hurt or injured and firearms damaged or ruined.