Has anyone here ever loaded hot dewc's

[wadcutter]

http://www.underwoodammo.com/44remingtonmagnum200grainwcboxof50.aspx
I just found this load on Underwood's site and I find it very interesting to say the least. Kudos to Kevin Underwood for thinking outside the box and making this unique round. It's a 200 grain full wadcutter loaded to 1300 fps . I've been loading wadcutters for years and they're far and away my favorite target bullets, but I've never loaded them to full power magnum velocity before. It just never occurred to me until I saw them on Underwoods site which got me thinking about loading some 148 grain wadcutters I have on hand with a bhn of 18 using A2400, imr4227 or pp300mp out of my 357's just for kicks. Has anyone HERE ever tried this before? I'm sure it's been done before I just can't find anything on the internets or my manuals for actual load data. I'm thinking a good starting point would be using 180 grain starting load data since the wadcutter takes up so much space and working up.  I'm just doing this for fun, but a 148 grain wadcutter at 1400 - 1500 fps intrigues me for some reason. I think it would make for a fine small game round up to 50 yards from a handgun. What do you guys think is it a dumb or bad idea? Be honest I'm a big boy you won't hurt my feelings.

[Pinsnscrews]

As I understand it, the draw back to Full Wadcutters is stability. If you can get them to stay stable at that velocity and range, you're golden. No reason you can't try it at least.

[sqlbullet]

A 200 grain bullet in 44 magnum at 1200 fps is kinda a mouse load still.  Hodgdon will push a 200 grain JHP 1800 fps in 44 mag with H110.

You are right about case capacity if you load them deep.  But, for a defense load no reason you can't buy back some case capacity by crimping in first lube groove IMHO.  18 BHN is plenty hard with the right fit.  I bet you could load that on up a fair bit.

In a lotta ways you can think of a 250 grain keith as a 200 grain full wadcutter with the nose off a .401 truncated cone grafted onto the front.  The shoulder cuts a good hole, and the extra mass gives penetration.

[wadcutter]

The Underwood load is actually 1300 fps which is not that bad. I think they'd make for  a good bear defense round with that wide meplat and the deep penetration wadcutters are known to achieve.  I did find some load data for magnum velocity 357 dewc's in my 1 caliber booklet. These are max loads, 16 grains IMR4227 = 1320 fps,  13.6 grains of A2400 = 1255 fps and 7.2 grains of Unique = 1241 fps. Not bad but not quite the 1400 - 1500 fps I was looking for. Maybe a stiff charge of pp300mp will get them their, unfortunately the ballistic coefficient of these bullets is so dreadful  they lose tons of velocity even at 10 yards making them practically useless after 20 yards for anything but target practice. This made me reconsider and I've decided to save the powder for other projects.

[The_Shadow]

My recent 44 loadings were somewhat different, I'm casting a 255 gr Lyman Devastator HP
255 gr Lyman Devastator HPGC 0.431"
16.2 grains Blue Dot
CCI 350 primer
COAL seated in cannelure 1.692"
Velocity 1370 fps 8 3/8" BBL
Energy 1083 ft/lb

While I could drive them faster, these are quite accurate and effective rounds.

[gandog56]

http://www.underwoodammo.com/44remingtonmagnum200grainwcboxof50.aspx
I just found this load on Underwood's site and I find it very interesting to say the least. Kudos to Kevin Underwood for thinking outside the box and making this unique round. It's a 200 grain full wadcutter loaded to 1300 fps . I've been loading wadcutters for years and they're far and away my favorite target bullets, but I've never loaded them to full power magnum velocity before. It just never occurred to me until I saw them on Underwoods site which got me thinking about loading some 148 grain wadcutters I have on hand with a bhn of 18 using A2400, imr4227 or pp300mp out of my 357's just for kicks. Has anyone HERE ever tried this before? I'm sure it's been done before I just can't find anything on the internets or my manuals for actual load data. I'm thinking a good starting point would be using 180 grain starting load data since the wadcutter takes up so much space and working up.  I'm just doing this for fun, but a 148 grain wadcutter at 1400 - 1500 fps intrigues me for some reason. I think it would make for a fine small game round up to 50 yards from a handgun. What do you guys think is it a dumb or bad idea? Be honest I'm a big boy you won't hurt my feelings.

I'm looking a little perturbed by a cast lead load they're claiming 1300 fps. Seems like that would lead up the barrel pretty darned fast. I don't even know if there is a DEWC 10mm bullet out there.

[sqlbullet]

I shoot cast lead from my garands that is going well over 1300 fps with no leading.  It isn't the speed.

In fact, usually when guys who don't know lead have leading, they go harder and slower to fix it.  The problem is usually that the bullet didn't fit, and was too hard to bump up to the right size with the load that had.  A problem they made worse by going harder and slower.

12-14 BHN is plenty hard for all but quite extreme circumstances.  And it won't lead if the bullet fits!  But the only way to know if the bullet fits is to slug the bore of the gun, cylinders too in a revolver.  And most guys don't do that.

And then we end up with nonsense that lead can't go over X speed.

[wadcutter]

I'm looking a little perturbed by a cast lead load they're claiming 1300 fps. Seems like that would lead up the barrel pretty darned fast. I don't even know if there is a DEWC 10mm bullet out there

Why would that factory load perturb ya and who said anything about 10mm?

I shoot cast lead from my garands that is going well over 1300 fps with no leading.  It isn't the speed.

In fact, usually when guys who don't know lead have leading, they go harder and slower to fix it.  The problem is usually that the bullet didn't fit, and was too hard to bump up to the right size with the load that had.  A problem they made worse by going harder and slower.

Well said SQbullet, my 44 magnum plinking load is a 240 grain rnfp no gas check over 7 grains of w231. After a hundred rounds my barrel still looks as shiny and clean as the first shot. Sure these only do 900fps or so, but the hottest 44 mag I've ever loaded is a 310 grain Oregon trail lbt style bullet over 22 grains of pp300mp at about 1300 - 1400 fps depending on barrel length. I really need a chrono, but Brian Pierce claims 1520 fps with this load from a 7.5" revolver which sounds a little too optimistic imo. Again no leading, I don't even worry about leading to tell you the truth.

[sqlbullet]

Everyone has a different standard for leading.

I don't worry about leading either.  To me, leading is a steady increase in deposited lead that will interfere with proper operation (accuracy, function, pressure) of the firearm within one range session.  I have never had leading to that degree.

With water dropped isotope lead and light loads with blue dot, I get some lead deposits that are a bit difficult to get out of the bore when I clean.  they don't impact me at the range, but are visible when cleaning.  If I load light with Unique, which reaches a higher initial pressure by producing a smaller gross volume of gas faster than blue dot, I don't have that issue.  The additional pressure bumps the bullet fine.

In my M1's, bores are always shiny with just powder residue.

[Pinsnscrews]

I'm looking a little perturbed by a cast lead load they're claiming 1300 fps. Seems like that would lead up the barrel pretty darned fast. I don't even know if there is a DEWC 10mm bullet out there.

If you really want to get your eyes opened to how fast Cast can be loaded to, wander over to http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forum.php

As The_Shadow pointed out, it is all about Fit of the bullet to the firearm. Too small and you get leading from gas cutting. Too large and you get high pressures. The only issue I have with ordering a factory loading like that one from Underwood is knowing how well the bullet will fit my firearm. As long as my Barrel Slug measurements are close to the listed by the manufacturer, it should be no problem. But if the manufacturer only says "44mag" does that mean it is cast to Jacket sizing or cast to +.001/.002/.003 over bore so that it fills the groove. For instance, my .357 Herret pushes a 200gr cast at 2000fps. As long as the bullet drops or is sized at .359-.360 it gets no leading. If it is cast to .358, I get a little bit of leading. Along the lines that sqlbullet is speaking of. Not enough to affect accuracy, but enough I can't leave it sit in the bore after a range session. If it is cast or sized to .357, then I definitely get leading really quick.

[gandog56]

I shoot cast lead from my garands that is going well over 1300 fps with no leading.  It isn't the speed.

In fact, usually when guys who don't know lead have leading, they go harder and slower to fix it.  The problem is usually that the bullet didn't fit, and was too hard to bump up to the right size with the load that had.  A problem they made worse by going harder and slower.

12-14 BHN is plenty hard for all but quite extreme circumstances.  And it won't lead if the bullet fits!  But the only way to know if the bullet fits is to slug the bore of the gun, cylinders too in a revolver.  And most guys don't do that.

And then we end up with nonsense that lead can't go over X speed.

So do I, but they're gas checked.

[my_old_glock]

I shoot cast lead from my garands that is going well over 1300 fps with no leading.  It isn't the speed.

I shoot the Lee 311-100-2R bullet (no gas check) out of my M1 Carbine @ ~1950fps, and get some leading.

I use water quenched wheel weights with ~2% tin added.



.

[sqlbullet]

I shoot cast lead from my garands that is going well over 1300 fps with no leading.  It isn't the speed.

I shoot the Lee 311-100-2R bullet (no gas check) out of my M1 Carbine @ ~1950fps, and get some leading.

I use water quenched wheel weights with ~2% tin added.

.

How are they sized, and what did the bore on the Carbine slug measure?

[my_old_glock]

I shoot cast lead from my garands that is going well over 1300 fps with no leading.  It isn't the speed.

I shoot the Lee 311-100-2R bullet (no gas check) out of my M1 Carbine @ ~1950fps, and get some leading.

I use water quenched wheel weights with ~2% tin added.

.

How are they sized, and what did the bore on the Carbine slug measure?

Sized to 0.309, and I didn't slug the bore.


.

[sqlbullet]

I shoot the Lee 311-100-2R bullet (no gas check) out of my M1 Carbine @ ~1950fps, and get some leading.

I use water quenched wheel weights with ~2% tin added.

How are they sized, and what did the bore on the Carbine slug measure?

Sized to 0.309, and I didn't slug the bore.

I am NOT picking on you, but this is a great case in point.

A quick read at cast boolits shows that most guys who have M1 Carbines and have slugged the bore find them to be .3085 to .309.  Chances are good you bullets are too small.  I would bet a .310 with a good lube will have no leading.