45 ACP being stopped by heavy clothing?

[Mike_Fontenot]

[...]
I would guess the "hit" wouldn't be that hard.

If the clothing stops the bullet, the feeling of the "hit" depends mostly on momentum.  The .45acp is slow and doesn't have much energy, but it does have a higher momentum than a 9mm or a .40S&W (because of the .45acp's very heavy 230gr bullet).  Its momentum is less than a 10mm, however.  The perceived "hit" of a .45acp would be more than most other handgun rounds, but a "hit" from a 10mm would be greater (and a 10mm is also much less likely to be stopped by clothing).

[4949shooter]

Even if it did not penetrate the clothing, would you still not get the impact from the bullet hitting you?

Much the same way the vest does not allow the bullet to penetrate but you still get the impact, but spread over a wider area.

I still believe that it would stop, if only temporaily, the bad guy.

I would think a 45 slug to the chest, even while wearing a vest and from distance, would put a whallop on somebody. It might not them down or out for a few minutes.

[sqlbullet]

Does firing a 45 ACP from a locked breech single shot gun knock you down, or out?

The laws of physics plainly dictate they you experience the same force as getting hit by a 45 slug when you fire a 45 slug.

Bullets are devastating because the concentrate that force into a very small area.  In the case of a 45 that area is .16  square inches.  The recoil energy is spread out across the web and palm of your hand.  About 4-5 square inches or 30 times the area.

Threats are stopped by handguns due to interrupting the central nervous system or by exanguinating the target.

It the threat stops because of a non-penentrating hit, it was the flight part of the fight or flight instinct that stopped the fight.

[Raggedyman]

Does firing a 45 ACP from a locked breech single shot gun knock you down, or out?

The laws of physics plainly dictate they you experience the same force as getting hit by a 45 slug when you fire a 45 slug.

Bullets are devastating because the concentrate that force into a very small area.  In the case of a 45 that area is .16  square inches.  The recoil energy is spread out across the web and palm of your hand.  About 4-5 square inches or 30 times the area.

Threats are stopped by handguns due to interrupting the central nervous system or by exanguinating the target.

It the threat stops because of a non-penentrating hit, it was the flight part of the fight or flight instinct that stopped the fight.

Very well said, but to put a finer point on it, bullets work because the force of launching the projectile is spread over a larger physical space as well as a longer time interval than the impact. While it seems instantaneous from a human perspective, the acceleration of the projectile takes time, while the full measure of the energy is available for transfer at the moment of impact. Tissues yield to the passing bullet until the energy is completely spent.

Is sill maintain that any .45 bullet with a low enough mass and velocity to be stopped by clothing would also not have sufficient energy to cycle the slide. I believe that this is either a totally fabricated myth or some combination of miscommunication. My money is on someone being totally full of crap. It's really common in the firearm world for self proclaimed experts to just spout off about something they think might be the case. (stop snickering, I never claimed to be an expert  )  It's also possible that a lot of defective ammunition had this result but, like I said, I don't think it would even work the slide. Maybe some day, I'll load some light .45 bullets as light as I dare go and see just how many layers of clothing it takes to stop them.

[Pinsnscrews]

Think about it this way...the concept of say a 125gr fragmenting .45ACP round at some rediculous velocity for a .45ACP of like 1300fps.

The round might actually "disintigrate" on impact. The heavy clothing actually would be credited for "stopping" the round from penetrating.

However, that round is still going to impart one hell of a lot of energy in a .45 inch point of impact.

By definition of the testing, the clothing prevented penetration, they just never said anything about the 4 broken ribs the impact left behind...

[10mmfan]

I have a coworker who carries a 5.7 and he said his gun is better than my 10mm because his can penetrate body armor. My response was your caliber may be able to but you can't have the ammo that's capable and my 10mm will still have you on the ground.

[sqlbullet]

I have a coworker who carries a 5.7 and he said his gun is better than my 10mm because his can penetrate body armor. My response was your caliber may be able to but you can't have the ammo that's capable and my 10mm will still have you on the ground.

Well...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=448991084

If you are willing to take the possible legal risks in your jurisdiction, if any. (and have a wad of cash.)

[Raggedyman]

Think about it this way...the concept of say a 125gr fragmenting .45ACP round at some rediculous velocity for a .45ACP of like 1300fps.

The round might actually "disintigrate" on impact. The heavy clothing actually would be credited for "stopping" the round from penetrating.

However, that round is still going to impart one hell of a lot of energy in a .45 inch point of impact.

By definition of the testing, the clothing prevented penetration, they just never said anything about the 4 broken ribs the impact left behind...

I tested something like that:

[Raggedyman]

I have a coworker who carries a 5.7 and he said his gun is better than my 10mm because his can penetrate body armor. My response was your caliber may be able to but you can't have the ammo that's capable and my 10mm will still have you on the ground.

Well...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=448991084

If you are willing to take the possible legal risks in your jurisdiction, if any. (and have a wad of cash.)

Pretty sure you can also hand load ammo that will punch a IIIA vest, if that's important to you. Still unimpressive in tissue.

[harrygunner]

Back when Double Tap made ammo that met specs, I bought hundreds of rounds of their .45 ACP 200 gr. Gold Dot ammo, rated at 1125 ft/s (562 ft-lb).
   
That will probably penetrate cloth. The .45 ACP is a good self-defense round and is my backup rig to 10mm.

[sqlbullet]

That will probably penetrate cloth.

[denclaste]

Tell me what result you want and I'll design a study to prove that result. This seems to be the common denominator in government and pay to play studies.

[Freetime]

A friend of mind said a policeman friend of his claims that his dept. showed in controlled testing that some heavy clothing configurations (multiple heavy winter coats, etc) actually prevented some 45 acp round from penetrating into ballistic gelatin.  This some like another "long" fictitious rumor started by someone wanting their name in lights to me.

My question is has anyone heard RELIABLY of any such thing?

Thanks,

Pat

Well, you could stack up a lot of winter coats to get the result you want.  Or down load the ammo to get the result you want.  Any modern design, standard, .45 ammo would be a good choice against any normally dressed human, winter or summer wear.  So would any of the standard duty calibers.

Sounds like a department switched calibers and wanted to convince the officers that it was the right thing to do by "controlling" a test to show how week the other ammo is.

[Pinsnscrews]

Think about it this way...the concept of say a 125gr fragmenting .45ACP round at some rediculous velocity for a .45ACP of like 1300fps.

The round might actually "disintigrate" on impact. The heavy clothing actually would be credited for "stopping" the round from penetrating.

However, that round is still going to impart one hell of a lot of energy in a .45 inch point of impact.

By definition of the testing, the clothing prevented penetration, they just never said anything about the 4 broken ribs the impact left behind...

I tested something like that:

That is still 60gr higher than the suggested round ;-) There was a round that came out the same time as the Glaser Safety Slug, a Light Weight, High Velocity, Fragmenting round, I thought it was about 125gr in the .45acp. It left the market rather quickly. But since that was before the internet, I don't have reliable data on it. It might have been from Aguilar.