180 gr and 200 gr XTP: Longshot and IMR 800x or Accurate #9 and Blue Dot?

[tilefish]

I have been shooting and reloading for 10mm for a little while now and typically use Longshot and Power Pistol, occasionally HS-6 but it meters poorly and jams up my measure.

I have both the Lee and the Hornady reloading manuals and both call for Accurate#9 or Blue Dot for full power loads. However when I look at the pull-downs from the boutique ammo manufacturers they seem to overwhelmingly use Longshot or IMR 800x.

What gives? Why do the bullet manufacturers reloading manuals list Accurate#9 and Blue Dot as the top performer but the guys who actually manufacture 10mm ammo get better results with Longshot and IMR? Why do they list comparatively anemic loads with Longshot? I was looking through another manual (Speer I believe) at my reloading store and that manual also calls for Accurate #9 for the best performance.

For what its worth, I have not worked with IMR 800x but I am fully aware of its poor metering properties. However Longshot meters great.

What am I missing?

[Osageid]

800x is a great powder but meters like corn flakes but it easily/readily available.  AA9 is great too, I use Aa9 currently.  The advantage of AA9 is it Meters very well.  Loud report and big muzzle flash but I have stocked up on it.  I would use anything I could get my hands on.  I have 5 pounds of 800x and 5 of AA9 to feed the 10mm loads. 

[sqlbullet]

There is no short answer to your question.

I think a lot of it is economy.  AA#9 is a great performer in 10mm.  But, it takes 12.5 grains of AA#9 to get a 200 grain pill near 1200 fps.  I can do the same thing with 9 grains of Blue Dot, and 8.2 grains of Longshot.

That means if I am a commercial loader I will use a bunch more expensive AA#9 to load the same number of rounds.  In fact, 50% more.  That works out to an additional $10/1000 rounds in powder.

Blue Dot isn't giving quite the same performance as Longshot and AA#9.  Max loads for Blue Dot in 200 grain is 1,110 fps where both longshot and #9 are at 1,170 fps.

So, Longshot, in heavy bullets, provides great performance for great economy.

[Pinsnscrews]

Notice, Hornady has Longshot topped out at 7.0grains, which means those aftermarket manufacturers are loading Above book recommended. Since SAAMI has not established a +P designation for the 100(that I am aware of or can find) Hornady has topped out at 7gr because that is as close to the 37,500 pressure limit set by SAAMI. What the aftermarket has done is load Unofficial +P or even +P+ loads to get their target velocities. AS noted above, this is due to economics. The extra 2gr of Longshot over 13+gr of AA9 is a money saver over say 10,000 rounds.

[sqlbullet]

My Hornady manual lists 7.3 grains with the 200 gr XTP.

But, Hodgdon's site says 9.2 8.2 (typo). And the list the pressure, which my Hornady manual doesn't.  Granted, it is with a Sierra bullet, not an XTP, but I think Hornady's data is very conservative.  The general rule is to reduce 10% and work up if switching bullet mfg.  Even reducing 10% puts you a full grain over Hornady's max load.

So....:shrug

[tilefish]

This is a great forum and I appreciate the insights. The economic factors make a lot of sense, as do the conservative/safety tendencies of certain manuals and their loads.

With that said, I have always been a fan Longshot and Power Pistol for my 10mm loads and had successes over a wide range of "heat" levels.

I might try some Accurate #9 an Blue Dot at some point but I do not see myself hand metering IMR 800x anytime soon. Well at least not until I get a better scale.

From what I have gathered from this thread so far, I am not missing out on any magic powders.

In the the mean time, I think I will go work up some Power Pistol and Longshot loads. I picked up both 180 grn and 200 gr XTPs. I have not worked with either until now

[Pinsnscrews]

If by a better scale you mean a balance beam, a good entry level is the Lee. I use mine to back up my digital scale. My Lee has been checked against check weights to be really accurate. I have seen a few examples of people using Webcams/Ipads/Iphones etc to make a blow up of the pointer on their balance beam scales making it much easier to see on a bigger screen.

Right now, my Lee disc measure on my thru die has been dropping a very consistent 9.5 gr so I only check every 20 rounds. But I check it in my Lee balance rather than my digital. When loading for my rifle or contender, I am measuring by hand. So I will use the digital for convenience, but if the numbers start bouncing, I transfer to my Lee and fine tune from there. I usually reset the digital at that point too. My digital is from Lyman and stays accurate for about 30 mins at a time before needing to be reset. 

[tilefish]

Based on my Hornady manual, they are being very conservative listing 7.3 gr of Longshot as max charge for a 200 gr XTP. At least based on other loaders Longshot recipes for the 200 gr XTP

[sqlbullet]

They may have tested on a hot day in a tight chamber.

[tilefish]

They may have tested on a hot day in a tight chamber.

I just loaded up 50 rounds as per Hornady max load.
200 gr XTP
7.3 grs of Longshot
1.260 COL
S&B primers

I will probably load up another batch of 200 gr XTPs with Power Pistol tomorrow (7.6 grns) I also have some 180 grn XTPs to load.

I would like to use some of the HS-6 I have but my measure hates it and sticks constantly... Those are my choices for now as Acurate#9 and Blue Dot seem to be non-existent these days. I have some Titegroup but I use that for 9mm exclusively. The idea of loading 10mm with Titegroup make me shudder lol.

No rush though as I probably not get my G20 back from the mothership for at least another month. I was told 4-6 weeks and that was last Friday...

[Osageid]

Do you have a chrony?? I think that is half the fun of working up new loads

[The_Shadow]

Yes! If you don't have a chronograph you are working blindly!  I is nice to have the numbers as shot in your own test! 

[tilefish]

Do you have a chrony?? I think that is half the fun of working up new loads

No, not yet. I will get one sooner or later. I was thinking about this one: http://www.amazon.com/Competition-Electronics-ProChrono-Digital-Chronograph/dp/B0028MTBJ4

I am not interested in anything too fancy, just something that works. I try to keep my shooting/reloading hobby expenses in-line with my wife's hair cuts/coloring or whatever she it is she gets done. That way she can't give me grief 

Soooo, I like to spend it essential supplies. I am sure many of you understand the game lol

[sqlbullet]

IMHO cheaper is better for your first chronograph.  Usually it gets shot eventually.

They all work pretty well.  The advanced features most of the more expensive ones have just save you writing and typing in a spreadsheet.

[Osageid]

Yes we know the "wife" game.....all understood