Gen 4 FTF (nose up)

[chucky2]

Yep, same problem I have.  Don't bother sending the pistol back to Glock unless they'll replace it with a Gen 3/Gen 3SF as another poster had done...they will find nothing wrong because they test with extremely weak 10mm ammo (and getting that info out of them was like prying it out via email).  I have #3 followers as well.  It is interesting they say that about the mags because I went to a gun show in Indy earlier this year and there was a Glock certified armorer there.  He listened to my issues and thought it might be mag related.  He took his glock tool and pushed down on my first mag follower and it sorta did a snag type thing, which he frowned at.  The other two did he same thing.  I asked if that was normal and he didn't say No, however, he took the time to go find one of his new Gen4 G20 mags and it did the same thing, so he didn't further troubleshoot that aspects of it.  That stuck in my mind though, because if that was TRULY normal, he wouldn't have got the frown on his face, nor went and checked another mag.  He then broke all my mags down and checked the spring length, which was like 5" or something like that...according to him it should be 6".  He stretched mine out to 6" and reassembled.  Then cleaned my gun (which wasn't that dirty) with baby wipes and told me to not use Frog Lube and told me all that was needed was Tetra grease, except he didn't grease at a few points the manual said to.  I paid particular attention to not get Frog Lube anywhere close to the striker channel.  It did better at the range with the PBR, but, I still had problems just like yours.  My bud who has zero recoil issues (wrestler, forearms and wrists are naturally strong) shot it and had a same type FTF.  Notable because the technical guy at glock told me he thinks its limp existing causing 10mm issues.

[Species]

#3 followers for my g20 gen 4, although I only shoot BB 155gr. Barnes and 220gr hard cast, Wilson Combat 180gr. XTP's, and Pierce (Ted Nugent) 180gr HP's.  No issues, although FWIW, I do have a gunsmith fit Barso barrel and had a reliability package performed on the G20 by the same gunsmith.

I have one old gen-3 mag and it has a #2 follower.

What work was done as part of the "reliability" package?    I need that guy in my neighborhood 

[txgunshowreview]

Species - the work was done by Mike Caylor of Caylor Customs in Allen, TX.  He worked over the extractor/ejector and ejection was radically different after the work.  The gun throws brass directly to the right and with loads like Pierce or Wilson Combat, into the next county   There was one mod. I can't remember the specifics of (this was done last Sept.) that related to feed reliability.  He plugged he opening at the bottom/back of the grip so debris can't work its way in while I'm hiking, and a lot of work on the barrel.  Mike also passed along similar advice regarding mags that has already been covered in this thread - this is, by far, the best forum online, btw.

PM me and I'll pass along Mike's number as he does not have a web site.  That way, he can provide better detail.  I'm not a gunsmith or very mechanically inclined - my background is math/aerospace engineering, so I'm more theoretical by nature.  Caylor Customs offers several packages that help compensate for the loose tolerances and MIM parts that pass as 'perfection' these days

regards,

- jim

[Species]

Yep, same problem I have.  Don't bother sending the pistol back to Glock unless they'll replace it with a Gen 3/Gen 3SF as another poster had done...they will find nothing wrong because they test with extremely weak 10mm ammo (and getting that info out of them was like prying it out via email).  I have #3 followers as well.  It is interesting they say that about the mags because I went to a gun show in Indy earlier this year and there was a Glock certified armorer there.  He listened to my issues and thought it might be mag related.  He took his glock tool and pushed down on my first mag follower and it sorta did a snag type thing, which he frowned at.  The other two did he same thing.  I asked if that was normal and he didn't say No, however, he took the time to go find one of his new Gen4 G20 mags and it did the same thing, so he didn't further troubleshoot that aspects of it.  That stuck in my mind though, because if that was TRULY normal, he wouldn't have got the frown on his face, nor went and checked another mag.  He then broke all my mags down and checked the spring length, which was like 5" or something like that...according to him it should be 6".  He stretched mine out to 6" and reassembled.  Then cleaned my gun (which wasn't that dirty) with baby wipes and told me to not use Frog Lube and told me all that was needed was Tetra grease, except he didn't grease at a few points the manual said to.  I paid particular attention to not get Frog Lube anywhere close to the striker channel.  It did better at the range with the PBR, but, I still had problems just like yours.  My bud who has zero recoil issues (wrestler, forearms and wrists are naturally strong) shot it and had a same type FTF.  Notable because the technical guy at glock told me he thinks its limp existing causing 10mm issues.

Interesting that the Glock armorer does not like Frog Lube.  I use a similar product, Fireclean.  I love fireclean in my 22 suppressor.  I literally just wipe off the fouling and apply a light coat of fireclean and I am done.  It cut cleaning time down to 5-10 minutes on my suppressor.  Before fireclean it would take me more than an hour (counting the time I put the baffles in the sonic cleaner).  I now use it on all my guns and have had zero issues.  It really seems to improve performance, especially in my .22lr guns.  Fouling just wipes right off.  I wipe off all the excess fFireclean so it is almost "dry" and it doesn't attract any dust or debris.  I am pretty meticulous on gun cleaning and maintenance. I too am careful not to get anything in the striker channel, but just in case I detail strip my glock on a semi-regular basis and blow the striker channel out with compressed air and clean it real good with alcohol and a q-tip.  I have never had a firing pin issue with any of my pistols, ever.  But back to my point, I wonder why Frog Lube is not "recommended".  Seems like pretty good stuff.

[chucky2]

Fireclean I'll be trying next after all my FrogLube runs out (that'll be a while )...no idea why he didn't like it.  I think his thoughts were that it would get into the striker channel and perhaps foul it.  Before I did a detail strip and ultrasonic cleaned everything, I looked at the striker channel and striker and, while expectedly dirty after 1500 rounds, it wasn't that dirty.  Certainly nothing I wouldn't expect a Glock Perfection to be able to handle reliably.  His frowning and curiosity about my mags sometimes (not always, but sometimes) having a not smooth progression and return worried me a lot more about his opinions on FrogLube.

Sure wish Glock had a Tech Support/RMA department that took issues seriously...

Will be very interesting to see what comes back from them.

[NCTURBOS]

I get the malfunctions with both the stock and KKM barrel.  I have tried the stock recoil spring, 22 pound spring, and I even bought a 24 pound spring to try to fix it.  Anytime I feed it full power it jams with 3 or 4 rounds left in the mag.  It malfunctions in its100% stock configuration or 100% modified.

I have a Gen.4 G20 as well, with a KKM 6" barrel. To date no issues, firing both Georgia Arms 180gr. FMJ and various Underwood offerings. The one thing I did notice is the slide movement is rather aggressive with the Underwood 135gr. @ 1600fps rounds. You mention trying different recoil spring assemblies, where are you finding them for the Gen.4 offerings?

TIA,

K.

[redbaron007]

Fireclean I'll be trying next after all my FrogLube runs out (that'll be a while )...no idea why he didn't like it.  I think his thoughts were that it would get into the striker channel and perhaps foul it.  Before I did a detail strip and ultrasonic cleaned everything, I looked at the striker channel and striker and, while expectedly dirty after 1500 rounds, it wasn't that dirty.  Certainly nothing I wouldn't expect a Glock Perfection to be able to handle reliably.  His frowning and curiosity about my mags sometimes (not always, but sometimes) having a not smooth progression and return worried me a lot more about his opinions on FrogLube.

Sure wish Glock had a Tech Support/RMA department that took issues seriously...

Will be very interesting to see what comes back from them.

I've known several Glock Armorers, including myself, who do not use/care for FrogLube in Glocks. Generally speaking, it has shown to draw debris over time and sort of....for a lack of better term, gunk up...almost turn into a grease. I know several folks who use it in the ARs and other pistols with no issues. But from my use and a couple of others (anecdotal of course).....not a big fan of it used in a Glock. Just my $.02. I stick with plain ole Mobil One Synthetic 20W-50 for the wipe down and lube of my Glocks.

[Species]

Redbaron007 - ever try Fireclean?  Seems a little more "liquidy" than frog lube, but I have never actually compared them side by side. I find Fireclean to be similar to Ballistol. I am no armorer, but I have had no issues thus far.

[Species]

I have a Gen.4 G20 as well, with a KKM 6" barrel. To date no issues, firing both Georgia Arms 180gr. FMJ and various Underwood offerings. The one thing I did notice is the slide movement is rather aggressive with the Underwood 135gr. @ 1600fps rounds. You mention trying different recoil spring assemblies, where are you finding them for the Gen.4 offerings?

TIA,

K.

I purchased and returned a Lone Wolf distributors guide rod with their gen 4 adapter ring. Along with that I bought 22 and 24 pound recoil springs by ISMI. I have found out recently that the ISMI springs are not even close to their advertised weight. This was also the feelings of other members here.  In fact they are about  even with the stock spring.

I have a Wolff guide rod and Wolff 22 and 24 pound springs incoming and based on Shadows info they should be much better.  I got them from Wolff directly at www.gunsprings.com.  I will have to modify my Gen 4 adapter to fit the larger Wolff guide rod, but should be pretty simple. More on that topic is here. 

http://10mm-firearms.com/gunsmithing/recoil-spring-feel/

I also heard that Jentra makes a gen 4 adapter for the Wolff guide rod. Going to give them a call in the morning.

[Species]

Received my new magazines from Glock today.  I sent 3 back for service and Glock sent 5 new ones back to me.  They offered to send me an extra one back because I complained about having to pay for shipping, so I was expecting 4.....but 5 is even better.  The letter inside the package stated nothing at all, just "replaced magazines, per factory specs".  There was no response as to what might have been wrong or what their thoughts were as the inspected my magazines (if they did anything at all with them).

I was pleased with Glocks turn around time.  They received my mags on the 14th and the shipping label for my replacements was printed on the 16th.  That was a nice to only be without magazines for a week and a half total.

Upon inspecting the new magazines they all appear to be brand new.  They look the same as the others, but the followers are all marked with a 4.  I took them all apart to make sure they were all up to snuff and all seemed to be clean and free of anything that would cause hangups.  The #4 followers don't look any different than the #3's as far as I can tell.  I don't have the 3's to compare side by side, but from what I can remember and a few poor pictures I took on my cell phone they are pretty close to the same.

I kept 3 of the magazines with the stock springs and put Wolff +10% springs in the other 2.  I am hoping to get to the range in the next couple of days and give a report.  Keep your fingers crossed that these #4 followers are the answer to our Gen 4 feed issues. 

[Species]

Went to the range at lunch and the new magazines did not fix my problem.  Still having the nose up FTF with 3 or 4 rounds left in the magazine.  Called Glock and they are going to take the gun back and sent me a return shipping label.  Not sure what I want to do.  Sell it and by a gen 3, or send it back and hope I can get Glock to swap it out for a gen 3 or fix it........

I am wondering if it is the gen 4 magazines.  Has anyone with a Gen 3 gun used Gen 4 magazines?  Any issues with the full power ammo with Gen 4 mags in a gen 3 gun?

[chucky2]

Damn...I was really hoping this would have been the fix!   Curious, when you push down on your followers, with like a glock tool, do they bind up a little once they get down a ways?

[The_Shadow]

I would take the mags apart and check the followers without spring tension, just to feel if there is any resistance as it slides up an or down the inside the tube.  I look to see if the follower itself has any poor molded areas or damage...

[Species]

Damn...I was really hoping this would have been the fix!   Curious, when you push down on your followers, with like a glock tool, do they bind up a little once they get down a ways?

I didn't try pushing the followers down on the new mags, but the old mags did have a little resistance near the top of the mag.  I disassembled and tried running the followers up and down the mags with the new replacement mags and they seemed to move just fine.  Also wiped them down real good and made sure they were assembled correctly and no plastic flash was obstructing follower movement.  But they still gave me issues.  Like I said, Glock sent me (5) replacement magazines and all 5 malfunctioned in the gun.  I know FTF's are usually magazine related, but I have tried 8 different magazines with 2 different types of followers and every single one malfunctions.  That makes me think it is more than a magazine issues.  Probably a combination of factors.

It is frustrating because not only have a tried 8 different mags, but I have a KKM barrel, and various recoil spring assemblies.  Nothing makes this gun work.  I am wondering if the frame is flexing and the way the geometies work out with the last 3 rounds in the mag it causes the failure.  I have no way of testing that theory though.....just a hunch.   

[Species]

I would take the mags apart and check the followers without spring tension, just to feel if there is any resistance as it slides up an or down the inside the tube.  I look to see if the follower itself has any poor molded areas or damage...

I did do that before I went to the range based on previous recommendations you gave me.  Everything checked out.......frustrating.