10mm reloaders DO NOT USE PPU BRASS!!!

[Intercooler]

After getting some setbacks in my LAX Ammo reloads:

http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/issue-with-lax-ammo-this-morning/

   Another 10mm owner checked his lot of LAX Ammo and also found a bad one. He posted in the thread where I sent mine to The Shadow for pull-down/inspection to see if we could figure it out:

http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo-pull-downs/lax-180gr-fmj-plated-(ic-51714)-pull-down/msg31449/#new

   Plus an earlier mishap with PPU brass:

http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo/g20-kaboom-update/msg23811/#msg23811


  Every piece of brass contained in those links which showed issues when reloaded were PPU headstamped brass!!

  So if you buy PPU to shoot on the cheap, shoot it and throw the brass away!! It is not suggested in the least to reload any of the brass and risk a Kaboom 

[The_Shadow]

I received the rounds from Intercooler; Here is what I found...

Three were deep seated  1.1250" – 1.1595" – 1.1885"  PPU cases (Loose bullet fit could not be corrected with pass-thru and regular sizing, not even extra crimping) The PPU brass continued to spring back after sizing, setbacks could be a serious issue.
After "Pass-Thru sizing" and resizing with my RCBS 10mm sizer, these three PPU cases retained a loose bullet fit, the bullets would just fall into the case on one of them, one after seating and crimping I was taking the measurement with the caliper and the bullet would move deeper.  The brass is BAD!  I have to wonder about those who had "CASE BLOW OUTS" if they happened to get a "Setback" prior to or while the rounds were feeding, thus causing higher pressure condition.

Two that had black on the bullets was a residue that cleaned off, possible polishing compound and media that stuck there.

[The_Shadow]

I will say I have reloaded some PPU brass, but handloading them on single stage press and checking afterwards for any and all bullet movement is part of my systematic checks...No movement "in or out" and not loose to spin inside the casing. 

These that Intercooler sent would hold their resized shape/dimension, opening back up where the 0.4000" sized bullets would not hold.

[Geeman]

Gun was a Gen4 Glock G20 - Gun did its job - PPU brass didn't!!!







As you can see, I got away with it for other rounds, including a couple of other PPU cases.


The case separation occurred with a load I have shot many times before, and many times since without any signs of overpressure.  The Glock remained closed and locked during the event.  Case failed and destroyed the G20 frame as a consequence.  Having that happen in your hand is something you don't forget.  I'm just glad it was in my hand, and not a friend or family menber!

Time has past and I'd have to check to be positive, but it cost me $225 to get the gun repaired (frame replaced) if my memory serves correctly.

I DO NOT!!! reload PPU anymore.  Brass normally doesn't leave the range.  I usually collect it, place it behind my tire, and back over it before putting it in the brass barrel. 

They should Berdan prime these cases so fewer would be tempted to reload it.

Greg

[Geeman]

MidwayUSA description:

"Since 1928, Prvi Partizan has been producing custom ammunition in Serbia for competition, indoor ranges and big game hunting. Today Prvi Partizan is a modern factory that is shoulder to shoulder with the most well-known ammunition manufacturers in the world. Offering a wide range of commercial and military calibers for hunters and target shooters throughout the world. All Prvi ammunition meets SAAMI standards and is ran through an internal quality management system to ensure 100% customer satisfaction.

Prvi Partizan uses Jacketed Hollow Point bullets in this load that feature a full-length jacket with hollow point. This construction provides deep penetration with controlled expansion, and also enables reliable feeding into the chamber and good function in auto loading pistols. This ammunition is new production, non-corrosive, in boxer primed, reloadable brass cases. "

My one star customer rating at Midway:

I WON'T RELOAD ANOTHER
By Greg

from Wisconsin

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I thought I could shoot these and reload them. I was wrong. I had a case head separation on a 6 month old Glock 20. The case showed the gun functioned correctly, the case utterly and totally failed. The Glock is back to the manufacturer for repair, and I'm just glad my hand came through it ok.

Spend the extra and buy something reliable. The few bucks I saved cost me big time.

DON'T RELOAD IT!!!! It won't even come close to SAAMI pressures. I don't think I'll even finish off the two boxes I haven't touched yet. I don't/won't trust them antmore.


Greg

[Intercooler]

I'm waiting to hear from LAX. I'm thinking maybe I should check the remaining rounds for PPU headstamps and see if they will swap them for rounds of a different headstamp.

[sstewart]

I through all my PPU brass in my brass recycling bucket about 2 weeks ago. Looks like I made the right move.

[Intercooler]

   LAX thanked me for the information and gave me a $5 coupon for the PPU rounds. It looks like they will be pulling PPU brass out of the mix!

[The_Shadow]

That's cool to have a coupon, I'm going to find some other brass to rebuild those that were in the PPU brass...
Tried as I might, using both the pass-through and the RCBS sizer made any difference, those cases sprung back and the bullets would just about drop in, even without case mouth expansion.

I may try one more experiment, taking the taper crimp die and sizing the top cases without bullets inside to see if they will close up any.  I can possibly anneal the cases prior to sizing to see if that will soften the brass to take the springiness out.
I'll let you know what I find out! 

[Intercooler]

9x25?

[The_Shadow]

Well I repulled the reloaded rounds I put back together.  I resized and deprimed the two of the PPU cases and here are the results as measured...





Next I did a dirty annealing process on my gas stove, heated the cases till the started to discolor, could have probably heated a little more, water quenched, then resized again with the RCBS sizer and here are the results as measured...





As you can see they did close up and hold their size better.  I was seeing 0.3970" and 0.3975" on other multi fired brass with just resizing.

Intercooler writes;

9x25

I don't think so but if I were to rework them to 9x25 the neck could crack or split, loading them to the level I load at would be taking too much risk even in a fully supported chamber.   I have one PPU case that is not annealed and could test the results of working it into the 9x25Dillon cartridge...

[Intercooler]

Do you think the PPU brass is too soft, too hard, too thin or just not a good metal?

[The_Shadow]

I think these were hard/brittle and possibly on the thin side...0.0100" thick at the mouth.  Their manufacturing process and or alloy are suspect in my opinion.  Reloading also work hardens the brass even more.
The annealing process is used to soften the alloy to make in more malleable.

[palabman]

For what it's worth, I had 2 PPU factory rounds split on me.  The case seemed thin on the side of the split.  This was through a G20 with a KKM barrel. I have reloaded them as lower pressure plinking rounds and had another split with my Witness Match.  I'm going to give them a good look over before I reload them again.

[judgedelta]

A little off-topic, but I just some got a bunch of .40 S & W range brass that had some (a little) PPU in it.  Any info on .40? or should it be considered the same quality as 10 mm?  Thanks...