LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (IC 5/17/14) Pull-down

[The_Shadow]

Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: LAX 180gr FMJ Plated (Reloaded)(IC 5/17/14)
Ballistics Information: 10mm Auto
Muzzle Velocity: 1040 fps
Muzzle Energy: 432 ft. lbs .
Brass Make/Headstamp: Mixed Headstamps – Brass/Nickel
Bullet Make/Weight/Construction/Info; Length 0.5785"-0.5845"Dia. 0.4000": Plated 180 FMJ
MEPLAT 0.2500"
Actual weight 180.0 grains   Crimp squeezed bullet to 0.3970"
C.O.A.L.: 1.2600" / 1.2610" (DT-RP nickel)
Primer: Brass color
Case: Diameter 0.4220"-0.4235" Crimp Diameter 0.4220" (loose) Length 0.9890"
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight: IMR SR4756   7.6-8.0 grains

Making Changes to the LAX powder being used for the following reasons...

Originally I looked at this powder and it looked like Power Pistol (these would typically run 1200 to 1230 fps), after further research and studying the why the velocity numbers were so low, IMR SR4756 powder fits much better for the loading data and yield.
Hodgdon shows 180 gr Sierra JHC 7.6 grains at 1155 fps 34,400 psi.

Three were deep seated  1.1250" – 1.1595" – 1.1885"  PPU cases (Loose bullet fit could not be corrected with pass-thru and regular sizing, not even extra crimping) The PPU brass continued to spring back after sizing, setbacks could be a serious issue.
I received the rounds from Intercooler; Here is what I found...

Three were deep seated  1.1250" – 1.1595" – 1.1885"  PPU cases (Loose bullet fit could not be corrected with pass-thru and regular sizing, not even extra crimping) The PPU brass continued to spring back after sizing, setbacks could be a serious issue.
After "Pass-Thru sizing" and resizing with my RCBS 10mm sizer, these three PPU cases retained a loose bullet fit, the bullets would just fall into the case on one of them, one after seating and crimping I was taking the measurement with the caliper and the bullet would move deeper.  The brass is BAD!  I have to wonder about those who had "CASE BLOW OUTS" if they happened to get a "Setback" prior to or while the rounds were feeding, thus causing higher pressure condition.

Two that had black on the bullets was a residue that cleaned off, possible polishing compound and media that stuck there.

[Intercooler]

  I didn't look at the headstamp. Were all of them PPU? What do you think happened with the setback and is it related to the PPU brass?

   Today I received an e-mail saying they would give me a credit voucher for the bad ones.

[The_Shadow]

The three that were deep set were all PPU brass, even after I ran them through the Pass-through sizer and the RCBS sizer dies the bullets were loose fitting (never even had to run the expander to open the case mouth)(when I say loose i pushed the bullets inside the casing with the caliper while taking a measurement)

If this happened with others who reloaded PPU that had this condition and not notice it, a setback could occur and cause pressure issues.

[Intercooler]

I will pass this on to LAX. They may need to pull out all the PPU brass 

[fanninland]

IC, I purchased a 250ct ammo can of these from LAX on April 15, but haven't shot or even taken a close look at the rounds yet. Is this about the time you ordered these?

I'll try to check my order for loose seated PPU in the next day or so.

[Intercooler]

This last can was on the free shipping special which they ran on April 15. Inside the lid is a white sticker with the MFG date.


  I would dump all of the rounds out and look for any odd sizes unless you have trays to put them in.

[Intercooler]

   I kind of hate it that I seem to get rounds from different MFG's with issues, but at least we are learning from it. This may prove out the theory that PPU brass isn't up to the task being used for reloads.

This goes with the findings here: http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo/g20-kaboom-update/msg23811/#msg23811

    It's really looking like we should try to do a sticky as "PPU Brass Not-Reloadable!".

[1PowerfulCentimeter]

I just bought 250 rounds for $125 at a gun show last weekend. I was dispointed after I bought them to learn that they were only 1040fps. I inspected every round and they seem to be fine.

[Intercooler]

   When I have Chronographed them they tested out higher than the advertised 1040 FPS and the powder charges found support that.

LAX AMMO     REMAN   180      FMJ   1040   1,137   1,197   516   573   POWER PISTOL   7.6   

If they upped the Power Pistol charge to 8.2gr's which would match the BVAC 180's, it would be about the perfect round to get near real 10mm power without beating the parts up.

BVAC    1006   180      FMJ   1200   1,199   1,231   575   606   POWER PISTOL   8.2   


I tested the older and discontinued Texas Ammo Co. 180 XTP last week and it did give true 10mm velocity and power (>600 LBS). When the pull-down was done it was found to have 8.8gr's of Power Pistol. If someone wanted to hit right at the magic 600 LB number 8.5-8.6gr's of Power Pistol should put it right there!

TEXAS AMMUNITION CO       180      HORNADY   XTP JHP   1300   1,266   1,316   641   692   POWER PISTOL   8.8                     
         

[4949shooter]

That is good information, IC.

[fanninland]

I haven't been able to check all of my Apr 15th order of the LAX 180's, but I did grab a couple handfuls for a quick look tonight. Guess which one of these is a PPU case?



Shadow, thanks for bringing this to our attention. It's served as a reminder to me that it's always a good idea to check ammo before feeding it to your firearm, regardless of where it came from.

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[Intercooler]

Can we sticky this and change the title to prevent people from reloading PPU brass? It's pretty obvious now it doesn't agree with being reloaded.

[4949shooter]

Can we sticky this and change the title to prevent people from reloading PPU brass? It's pretty obvious now it doesn't agree with being reloaded.

Perhaps a sticky in the reloading forum would be good.

Did anyone let LAX know of the problems they are having with the PPU? It might be a good thing to do in order to save future shooters the headache.

[Intercooler]

   I put another thread together with everything in the reloading section (maybe sticky?). Everything to date I have also forwarded to LAX. If they just pick the PPU out, I think it will be fine ammo for shooting.

[4949shooter]

   I put another thread together with everything in the reloading section (maybe sticky?). Everything to date I have also forwarded to LAX. If they just pick the PPU out, I think it will be fine ammo for shooting.

Thanks. What is the price on the LAX?