Round #2 - Compact Steel Witness

[Geeman]

Will I ever get this thing to be reliable???

I had to get rid of the cheezy twin Bic lighter recoil spring setup, and replaced it with the heaviest of the "Wolff Extra Power Calibration Kit" which was a 22# spring.  It looks alot better!  I went with two stiff handloads and a box of PPU cheap and cheezey 180g powder puff loads.

The handloads were:

150g Nosler sporting pistol with 10.7g of Longshot

180g Hornady Action Pistol with 9.5g of Power Pistol

I love just about everything about the Compact Steel Witness, but feeding has its issues.  It ate PPU like candy, never an issue loading or ejecting, even with the 22# spring.  I just don't think PPU is the ideal defense ammo .  1.250" OAL.

The pistol was just a bit frustrating with the hand loads.  The 180g was the worst, Even the Limited Pro had a couple misfeeds.  It was also the longset OAL at the full SAAMI 1.260".  Maybe that was the issue, but I did get a couple mags to feed through 10 rounds, but othershad three or so FTF.

The 150g was a bit better, but still wasn't good.  This was the shortest OAL at 1.245".  I had a few magazines run without a hitch, but a FTF or two wasn't uncommon either. 

The failure to feed problem, almost without exception, was the round being pushed straight forward, but not guided up the ramp.  The rim of the round wasn't stripped from the magazine, and the slide was correctly pushing behind the rim and clearing was just pulling the slide back and releasing it to chamber the round.  If I could get this type of FTF, I'd consider the gun fairly reliable.

Another thing I noticed was these FTF happened most frequently with the magazine more than half full.

Damn, I like the feel, I like the trigger, I like DA/SA functionality, I like 10+ rounds of 10mm in a compact, I like the factory sights, and those mags that feed without a hitch, I like the feel and function.  I do want this thing to run well.

Wish me luck!

Greg

[Intercooler]

So what do you think is causing the problems?

[The_Shadow]

180 Hornady over 9.5 PP would be runnin' about 1400 fps, slide speeds were probably a bit too fast...

The 150's also would be at 1380 - 1400 fps, LongShot being a slower powder allowed the slide to function a slightly slower speeds.

Good luck getting things sorted out! 

[475/480]

If it feeds factory's ammo, I would look at needing a little more crimp on the bullet

Sean

[Intercooler]

The Shadow has turned down (I think that is what it is called) the sharp edge on some of the rounds he has sent. It helps!

[Geeman]

So what do you think is causing the problems?

Because the issue happens with the magazine over half full, I think there may be an issue there.  It seems the round isn't nose up by the time the slide returns, else the force of the slide hitting the case head pushes the bullet end down on impact. 

I saw no pressure signs on the 180g rounds, so shortening the OAL to 1.250 on the 20 I have left to see if that helps. 

I also thought of hitting the interior of the magazine with slip plate to ensure the follower is behaving also.

One other possibility is the pinkie on the end of the magazine thing.  Maybe the PPU runs because I know I don't need to hold on as tight.  Maybe I'm putting a load on the magazine with the more lively rounds.


Greg

[Geeman]

180 Hornady over 9.5 PP would be runnin' about 1400 fps, slide speeds were probably a bit too fast...

The 150's also would be at 1380 - 1400 fps, LongShot being a slower powder allowed the slide to function a slightly slower speeds.

Good luck getting things sorted out! 

I'm sure you can subtract 100 fps because of the short little barrel.

I shot a few hot loads the first time out and I must say the 24# spring feels much better.  I'll also try a ladder series to see it the problem is load dependent.

Greg

[Intercooler]

Could you possibly tweak the magazine lips up top?

[Geeman]

If it feeds factory's ammo, I would look at needing a little more crimp on the bullet

Sean

Measured .419 on the PPU, .421 on both reloads.  .002 might make a difference, but unless its catching the front of the mag, the case mouth isn't hitting anything.

Greg

[The_Shadow]

Yes, I would try the 1.2500" and that is what I mostly set mine to.  Most of the "pull-downs" have shown that Underwood uses 1.2520" on most of his loadings for jacketed bullets.

What color magazine followers do you have, if I recall the red one have been troublesome and the black ones were better.

0.4200" to 0.4225" are usually good to go but things can get touchy over 0.4235"

[Geeman]

What color magazine followers do you have, if I recall the red one have been troublesome and the black ones were better.

If I understand correctly, what you say is for the full size magazine (14 rounds) as that indicates the magazine was made by Mec-Gar and that is a good thing!!!!

Mec-Gar doesn't make any magazines for the compact (12 rounds) and my magazines have red followers.  I guess early magazines in the compact had black followers and they were real crap.  In other words, what I have is less than ideal, but they don't make ideal, and it still could be worse.

Greg

[The_Shadow]

Greg I could be totally wrong in trying to recall about the issues as it pertains to the EAA guns, I just remember read of some problems related to followers.  Maybe IC has more to offer!

[Intercooler]

You might want to contact Grams and see if they have a follower retro kit for those magazines. Buy one for a trial and see.

[sqlbullet]

This is gonna sound a little nuts....but it works for my Witness.

Store the magazines loaded.

If I take a red follower mag to the range that has been sitting around empty, it will give me issues, especially in the first half of the magazine.  Take that same mag, load it and let it sit for 24 hours.  It will run fine all day the next day at the range.  I have just learned to keep all my red follower mags loaded.  In fact, I now keep all my magazines loaded all the time.  I figure an empty magazine is about the most useless thing around.

[pacapcop]

On YouTube under "EAA Witness Compact 10mm" by 1957Shep he is shooting his compact 10mm that go's back like 13 yrs ago. it appears at that time they were 10 round mags and of course the old squared of slide. He did mention a spring change but he cannot recall details as it was long ago. It appears that changes to pistol has resulted what we get today.