Why Not Blue Dot or ?

[EdMc]

Probably another dumb question, but I was looking at loading info in manuals and on websites for powder companies.....for some reason (lurking around internet websites) I got interested in using Longshot......

After reviewing the former it seems Blue Dot, AA#9 or 800-X would be a better choice from published sources? In fact, 800-X seems to give the best velocity at the lowest pressure (where pressure readings are given). My understanding is that 800-X doesn't meter well but I weigh charges individually anyway. I guess my question is what apparent fact am I missing here? Even conceding that many companies will rate data conservatively, the ones that show Longshot always list it behind several other options for velocity figures.

[Taterhead]

Probably another dumb question, but I was looking at loading info in manuals and on websites for powder companies.....for some reason (lurking around internet websites) I got interested in using Longshot......

After reviewing the former it seems Blue Dot, AA#9 or 800-X would be a better choice from published sources? In fact, 800-X seems to give the best velocity at the lowest pressure (where pressure readings are given). My understanding is that 800-X doesn't meter well but I weigh charges individually anyway. I guess my question is what apparent fact am I missing here? Even conceding that many companies will rate data conservatively, the ones that show Longshot always list it behind several other options for velocity figures.

Of the four powders you mention, I prefer A9 and Blue Dot.

A9 is very forgiving and meters superbly. It will give you the best velocities with "by the book" data. It can also be very accurate with extremely tight standard deviations on velocity. The only demerit for A9 is that it consumes quite a bit more powder, so you'll go through a can much quicker than with the other powders mentioned. 13.0 grains of A9 under a 200 gr XTP gets 1200 fps in my G20. That is 2 tenths below Hornady's book max. You simply aren't going to get there with Longshot or 800-X without going well above book. A9 also gives great case fill, so you need to work at it to stuff too much powder in a case. This is my favorite 10mm powder for high performance loads. I also load a lot of it for medium warm range loads.

Blue Dot meters well enough, load data is abundant, it gives good velocities, and it is dead nuts accurate across a variety of load combinations. I have loaded more Blue Dot than any other. It is also fairly inexpensive. This is my go to 10mm powder when I don't have to be at maximum velocities. I don't necessarily love the fireball and loud report, but it can be fun sometimes. Safety officers at IDPA matches hate Blue Dot for its loud report. Oh well. 

I have used a few pounds of 800-X and have found it to be scarily inconsistent. Great with one load, excessive pressure signs with another. Some of the older load data found appears to be a misprint (like what is in Loadbooks). Getting to top velocities means going well above published book loads. Also, it does not meter, so every charge must be hand weighed. I have done exactly that for a couple pounds of it. After I am done with my last can, I wont' buy any more. If you refer to the most current book data, manufacturers hold this powder back substantially. I believe it is because of the inconsistent nature of this powder.

Longshot is a nice powder. It meters pretty nicely. But, like 800-X, must be pushed beyond book maxes by a large margin to get to top velocities. Hodgdon max loads only yield about 1185 fps for a 180 XTP in my G20. The downside is that I have found it to be somewhat finicky about powder charge, or groups wander. It tends to cost a few more bucks than other powders.

For a new guy starting out with 10mm, you can't go wrong with Blue Dot for a variety of bullet types. It gets dirty when down loaded, but it is very clean when pressures increase. It is a solid do everything powder. Accurate no. 9 is highly recommended for its forgiving nature when pursuing top end loads, or for precise metering for medium-hot volume loading.

[The_Shadow]

EdMc, I have used Blue Dot since my first 10mm loading in March 1990, actually developed loads from scratch before there was published data.  Some have shyed away from Blue Dot because of the cold weather warnings)  I still use it regularly across the calibers/bullet weights/cartridge spectrum Then Speer actually published some data (I have it posted in the reloading section) that mimiced what I was doing based on a suplement they sent as a written request, this was before internet was as popular and wide spread.  Alliant has made Power Pistol which has some good aplications for 10mm also.

Yes IMR800X is also a great powder other than the large disk flakes (I hand weigh every load anyway, so it is not an issue with me) and you will find loads the match LongShot grain for grain in most cases.  AA#9 & #7 are also great for various loadings with certain bullet weights.

To get to the upper limits people are pushing beyond the published data in most cases...but some of the older data has been reduced over the years as well.

Best regards!

[sqlbullet]

I load lots of Blue Dot.  It is everywhere and is a near top performer. It is by far the powder I load the most in 10mm.  It burns a touch dirty, which bugs some, but not me.

Second is Unique, for lighter loads for new shooters on their first non-22.

I have burned about 2-3 lbs of AA#9.  Great for top performance.  I keep at least 100 rounds loaded under my 205 grain hardcast for mountain carry.  I consider this one of the best powders, with the only drawback being large charges.  A lob doesn't go near as far.

I have longshot but have not tried it yet, and have no interest in a powder like 800X that wont meter.

[REDLINE]

When wringing out A9 for all it's worth in 10mm with heavy bullets (180-200gr XTP), is it beneficial to go with a magnum LP primer?

[sqlbullet]

None of the data indicates magnum and I have never had any issues with powder performance.

Now that I finally have a Chrony I will test velocity and look at the deviation and extreme spread.  But I expect them to be small.  My experience is magnum primers are not needed.

[EdMc]

Gentlemen, if I had to pay to be a member of this website your replies would be worth the price of admission. I'll look tomorrow and see if I can find some Blue Dot or A#9 locally. I do have the current versions of Speer and Hornady's reloading manuals and a Lyman pistol guide. Of late I've mostly loaded Unique for 45 Colt and 44 Special (Blackhawk and Smith M-24)  and Power Pistol in 44 Spec for a CA Bulldog. (speaking of loud). 

Much appreciated,
Ed

[cwlongshot]

I load lots of Blue Dot.  It is everywhere and is a near top performer. It is by far the powder I load the most in 10mm.  It burns a touch dirty, which bugs some, but not me.

I have burned about 2-3 lbs of AA#9.  Great for top performance.  I keep at least 100 rounds loaded under my 205 grain hardcast for mountain carry.  I consider this one of the best powders, with the only drawback being large charges.  A lob doesn't go near as far.

I have Longshot but have not tried it yet, and have no interest in a powder like 800X that wont meter.

SAME HERE!!!

I have been loading Blue Dot in my heavy 10MM loadings for almost twenty years! My light lead loadings also came from Unique and HS6.
For about five years I left the 10MM in the safe... (I have two Deltas) Earlier this spring, I bought a G20 and a 6" KKM barrel. The 10mm fever is back WITH A VENGEANCE!!!!
I picked up my first ever can of Longshot about a month ago along with 4 boxes of 200 XTPs and two hundred 175 Winchester Silvertips. (I have been using them for carry since that first Delta back in the late 80's.) I loaded up a half dozen different loadings and hit the range with the chronograph. I was pleased with the velocities and accuracy of these first loadings. I may reach 1400 with the Silvertip, IF I wanted. A full grain from max yields mid 1300fps and high 1200fps with 200 XTP's! Accuracy is very good, so far...

For me this G20 will be a hunting gun and I would like a 200G bullet at as close to 1300 as good accuracy allows... Looks like Longshot will get me there with room to spare...

Good luck,
CW

[REDLINE]

None of the data indicates magnum and I have never had any issues with powder performance.

Now that I finally have a Chrony I will test velocity and look at the deviation and extreme spread.  But I expect them to be small.  My experience is magnum primers are not needed.

I'ld love to see the results!

[sqlbullet]

Gentlemen, if I had to pay to be a member of this website your replies would be worth the price of admission. I'll look tomorrow and see if I can find some Blue Dot or A#9 locally. I do have the current versions of Speer and Hornady's reloading manuals and a Lyman pistol guide. Of late I've mostly loaded Unique for 45 Colt and 44 Special (Blackhawk and Smith M-24)  and Power Pistol in 44 Spec for a CA Bulldog. (speaking of loud). 

Much appreciated,
Ed

Ed, I Speer #13 usually has hotter max loads than Hornady, Lyman or Lee.  I have not had any issues reaching max in the speer data, but your mileage may vary.  Good luck!

None of the data indicates magnum and I have never had any issues with powder performance.

Now that I finally have a Chrony I will test velocity and look at the deviation and extreme spread.  But I expect them to be small.  My experience is magnum primers are not needed.

I'ld love to see the results!

I will definitely post them once I get the chance.

[REDLINE]

Ed, I Speer #13 usually has hotter max loads than Hornady, Lyman or Lee.  I have not had any issues reaching max in the speer data, but your mileage may vary.  Good luck!

I'll have to pay attention to how the different "books" can vary.  So far I have Reading manuals from:  Hornady, Speer, Nosler, and Barnes.  Plus of course load data from the powder manufacturers off their respective websites.

[sqlbullet]

Keep in mind it can also be editions of the same book. Powders do change over time.  A given company will source a new mfg and the burn rates aren't quite the same.  Even different lots have this problem.

There was a time when AA#9 and H110 were the exact same powder.  In the last 60's/early 70's they were both military pulldowns from 30 carbine ammo being re-canistered and sold by different companies.  At that time you could interchange the data, and load manuals had the same data.

Fast forward to today and clearly they aren't the same.  And when you get a jug of surplus WC820 you have to test it carefully to find out if it is old powder (modern AA#9 data) or newer powder (modern H110 data).  But, if you can avoid the hazmat fee it can be a great way to get 8lbs of powder for $100 or less sometimes.

[The_Shadow]

Today Win 296 and H-110 are said to be the same...AA#9 seems to a different powder (grains like fine sand) but someone posted that the newer jug was more like flattened ball?

[loadedround]

I started reloading the big 10 when it first became available back in the mid 80's. My choice of powder then and still is Alliant's (Hercules) Blue Dot for all my 10mm loadings. I did experiment with AA #5 and 7 but found them to be erratic in observed pressure and velocity. Blue Dot works for me in both hard cast lead and jacket bullets. So as far as I'm concerned, why mess with something that works.

[EdMc]

Just as a follow up......bought some Blue Dot today at Bass Pro. They're usually sold out........also had a local gun store order a pound of AA#9. That should keep me busy for awhile. Thanks again.