Slowing down slide/barrel unlocking?

[REDLINE]

What options/tips/tricks can be used to slow down slide/barrel unlocking?

I'm specifically thinking toward my G20 with HOT loads, but even for whatever gun ammo combo.

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In a Glock your option is pretty much a heavier recoil spring.  Or a longer barrel/slide. 

For guns with hammers a heavier mainspring and a flat bottom firing pin stop.

If money and weight don't matter I suppose you could have a slide made from tungsten....

[Intercooler]

I know all of mine still throw the brass forever! Next for me is trying some of those flat wire springs and the RZ-10 is first up!

[Yondering]

What options/tips/tricks can be used to slow down slide/barrel unlocking?

I'm specifically thinking toward my G20 with HOT loads, but even for whatever gun ammo combo.

There are 3 ways to slow down the slide in your G20:

- stiffer recoil spring (guide rod weight makes zero difference to slide speed)
- increase slide weight (long slide)
- use a muzzle brake

The muzzle brake and heavy slide are far more effective than the stiffer recoil spring.

In a 1911, remove the recoil spring from the above list, but add:
- flat bottom firing pin stop
- stiffer hammer spring

[REDLINE]

increase slide weight (long slide)

Does anyone know the difference in weight between the slide of a longslide for a G20 compared to a standard G20 slide?

[sqlbullet]

In a 1911, remove the recoil spring from the above list, but add:

Why do you suggest a stiffer recoil spring won't slow down the slide on a 1911?

[Yondering]

In a 1911, remove the recoil spring from the above list, but add:

Why do you suggest a stiffer recoil spring won't slow down the slide on a 1911?

2 reasons:
- more knowledgeable gunsmiths than myself say so
- most 1911 springs apply about the same force with the slide in the locked position; heavier springs have different spring rates so they are stiffer as the slide retracts. In the Glock, the springs I've measured all have about the same rate, but stiffer springs have higher initial preload in the locked position. This is all based on my own spring measurements, not published data.

I'm not saying a stiffer recoil spring won't delay unlocking at all in a 1911, just that if there's an effect, it's insignificant compared to a flat bottom firing pin stop or stiffer hammer spring.

[sqlbullet]

it's insignificant compared to a flat bottom firing pin stop or stiffer hammer spring.

This I am on-board with.  But it does certainly have an effect.

I would be curious if you have any citations of the gunsmiths that have indicated the springs don't slow down unlock.  I would really like to read what they have to say.  My own reading and conversations with Steve of Mars Guns has been that a heavier spring is definitely worthwhile up to about 22-24 lbs.  Beyond that and the slide will start to abuse the slide stop pin and frame when returning to battery.

I can see this being true of variable spring rate springs, but all my 1911's and Witnesses have constant rate springs, same a Glocks.  Maybe I am missing something, but all three are variations of Brownings tilt lock mechanism, so all should have the same basic rules, it seems.

[Yondering]

You'd have to search around the 1911 forum to find that; it's been a while.

The correct way to delay slide unlocking on a 1911 is a FBFPS or stiffer hammer spring. A Glock doesn't have those options, and has to use other methods, like the recoil spring to delay unlocking. Glocks also don't suffer from damaging the barrel bottom lugs with a heavy recoil spring.

[Yondering]

I can see this being true of variable spring rate springs, but all my 1911's and Witnesses have constant rate springs, same a Glocks. 

Just because they are constant rate, does not mean they are the same rate.

[sqlbullet]

I can see this being true of variable spring rate springs, but all my 1911's and Witnesses have constant rate springs, same a Glocks. 

Just because they are constant rate, does not mean they are the same rate.

Yes, I am aware of the meaning.  My undergrad work was in ME before I became a computer geek.  I was just referencing that neither the Glock nor the 1911 take variable rate springs in standard set-ups.

And, I am 100% on board with FBFPS and main spring.  My Para has both the EGW and a wolff 25 lb mainspring.  First line of defense because they directly and immediately affect unlock, and the energy they absorb doesn't hammer the gun again when the action closes.

I will poke around a little.

[GoldBead]

I did a little fiddling around for an Ammo company that wanted to build a magnum out of the 1911 and here is what I learned.

1. Max slide weight. If you are doing a buildup with aftermarket parts like Caspian, ask what is their heaviest slide. Caspian, for example, has a Stainless and Carbon slide which they can mill different options from. Buy the heaviest slide and do not cut or cut as little as possible.

2. Max Barrel Weight. Go with a bull barrel that has cone lockup in the front and a ramp. All that mass has to be moved first before the slide gets going, so the more, better.

3. Increase Hammer spring first, then flat firing pin retainer, then shock buff, THEN recoil spring. Extreme Recoil spring pressure has all its own set of problems, some of which are made worse by hard kicking. A hard recoil spring hammers the gun in lockup, it allows very little time for the cartridges to rise in the magazine, the slide can sometime slap the cartridge so hard that it nosedives into the feedramp or even the front of the magazine, it makes it difficult to jam clear, etc. Start with 20lbs, which should be plenty and only then and reluctantly go higher. 

Fit tightly. If you have ever seen the Dan Wesson Commander 10mm's they are an art form, fitted like a bank vault. Not tight, just perfect.

Lastly, if you are still having problems, send the weapon to Mag-Na-Port and ask them for their porting job angled back 20 degrees (the max they will do). It makes a difference.

[Yondering]

I agree 100%, except for the Magna Port. Pretty much any muzzle brake out there will have a much greater effect than just barrel porting, and the porting has too many disadvantages.

[EdMc]

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Does anyone know the difference in weight between the slide of a longslide for a G20 compared to a standard G20 slide?
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FWIW, the G20SF slide weighs ~ 17 oz. My LW solid top G21L slide weighs ~ 21 oz. I'd think the G20L would be about the same in the solid top version.

[Yondering]

Does anyone know the difference in weight between the slide of a longslide for a G20 compared to a standard G20 slide?
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FWIW, the G20SF slide weighs ~ 17 oz. My LW solid top G21L slide weighs ~ 21 oz. I'd think the G20L would be about the same in the solid top version.
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Sounds about right. My 20LS slide weighs 20 oz, probably the same as your 21LS, just different scales. My RMR'ed G21 slide weighs 16 oz, and my G19 slide weighs 12 oz.