Gelatin test results

[The_Shadow]

Very nice!  Thanks! 

[5pins]

I don't know how many times someone said " try it with a 4 inch, a 4 inch, a 4 inch" Ok, here it is out of a 4-inch S&W 686 .357. Two round in bare and two in the clothed gel.

The first round in the bare gel had a velocity of 830fps and penetrated to 17.5 inches. The recovered diameter was .47 inches and the recovered weight was 157.1 grains. Round two's velocity was 824fps and penetrated to 17.25 inches. The recovered weight was 156.4 inches and expansion was also .47 inches.



Through the heavy clothing, the first round's velocity was 812fps and it penetrated to 18 inches a recovered weight of 156.8 grains. Round two's velocity was 778fps and it's penetration was 26 inches and weighed 157 grains. Neither bullet showed any expansion.

[5pins]

Test Gun: Sig P229, Kahr MK9.
Barrel length: 3.9, 3 inches.
Ammunition: Hornady Custom 9mm 147gr XTP.
Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel.
Distance: 10 feet.
Chronograph: Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph G2.
Five shot velocity average: 932, 884fps
Gel Temperature 76 degrees.

I'm sure just about everyone has heard of Hornady's XTP bullets and I have always found them to be good performers. They may not be the "best" but usually give deep penetration with modest expansion.

Shooting five rounds, from the Sig P229, gave me an average velocity of 932fps with a high of 938 and a low of 927fps.


Five rounds at 10 yards

When shooting the Kahr Mk9, I got a five-shot average of 884fps with a high of 901 and a low of 873fps.


Five rounds at 10 yards

Shooting the first round from the Sig P229, into the bare gel I got a velocity of 941fps with a penetration of 18 inches. The bullet had a recovered diameter of .54 inches and a recovered weight of 146.9 grains. The second bullet penetrated to 19.5 inches with a recovered diameter of .54 inches. The bullet's recovered weight was 144.1 grains and the velocity was 951fps.



When shooting through the heavy clothing, the first round form the P229 had a velocity of 944fps and penetrated to 21 inches. Its expansion was .49 inches and the recovered weight was 146.8 grains. The second round had a velocity of 936fps and penetrated to 23.75 inches. Recovered weight was 145.7 grains and it expanded to .48 inches.



Out of the Kahr Mk9, the first round's velocity was 892fps and it penetrated to 18 inches. The recovered weight was 146.8 inches and the recovered diameter was .51 inches. Round twos velocity was 900fps and its penetration was also 18 inches. It's recovered weight was 146.9 inches and its expansion was .53 inches.



https://generalcartridge.wordpress.com

[5pins]

I remember back in the 80's reading about this round in one of the popular magazines of the time. The idea was that a heavy for caliber projectile traveling as a low velocity would be so unstable that it would tumble upon hitting its target. If I remember correctly the Britsh came up with the idea in their Webley MkIV .38 S&W 38/200 in 1922.



The first record I could find of Western loading this round was in 1927 where it is listed in their 1927 price list. This load continued up until at least the 1981 Winchester-Western catalog. The round is described as a 200 lead inside lubricated Lubaloy bullet. Lubaloy is a thin, mostly copper, wash applied to the bullet.

I don't remember how I came to acquire this box of nine rounds but I have had it laying around for some time now. As near as I can tell it was produced in 1977 if the 77 stamped on the box flap is the date as I suspect it is.

At five yards it shot very well out of my S&W 442 Airweight or maybe I just got lucky. Recoil was about on par as a 148gr wadcutter but not as snappy.



I only shot two rounds into some bare gel and only got the velocity off of the first round. Its velocity was 567fps and it penetrated to 18 inches. The permanent wound track showed no tumbling even though it was recovered base forward. The second round penetrated to about an inch more and also show no sign of tumbling and was recovered nose forward.



An interesting round but other than the decent penetration probably not very effective.

[5pins]

Test Gun: Sig P229, Kahr Mk9.
Barrel length: 3.9, 3 inches.
Ammunition: Ruger ARX 9mm 80gr +P
Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel.
Distance: 10 feet.
Chronograph: Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph G2.
Five shot velocity average: 1411, 1323fps
Gel Temperature 73 degrees.

I have had this box of ammo for some time now and now that I decide to test them it looks like it's been discontinued. Part of the reason for waiting was trying to figure out how to evaluate them. Trying to evaluate them on the permanent wound damage in the gel is subjective and open to interpretation.

From the Sig P229, I got a five-shot average velocity of 1411fps with a high of 1421 and a low of 1403fps.



With the Kahr, the five-shot average was 1323fps with a high of 1331 and a low of 1316fps. The recoil in both pistols was very mild.

From the Sig, the first round had a velocity of1420fps and penetrated to16.75 inches. The second round hit the block at 1416fps and went to a depth of 16 inches. The bullets had a recovered weight of 82.1 and 82.4 grains with no expansion. Both bullets were recovered base forward.



In the heavy clothing covered gel, the first round's velocity was 1452fps and its penetration was 16.5 inches. The second round had a velocity of 1436fps and penetrated to 15.75 inches. Recovered weight was 82.1 and 82.7 grains and no expansion. Both bullets were recovered base forward.



Out of the Kahr, the first round's velocity was 1309fps and it penetrated to a depth of 15.5 inches. Round two also penetrated to 15.5 inches with a velocity of 1331fps. Both bullets were recovered base forward with a weight of 82.6 and 82 grains, no expansion.



I tried getting some decent pics of the tracks in the gel but as normal they are not so great. But they definitely showed much more permanent damage then ball. Most likely from tumbling. Not as much as you see with good hollow points but more then I expected.

[5pins]

Test Gun: Sig P229, Kahr Mk9.
Barrel length: 3.9, 3 inches.
Ammunition: Speer 9mm 124gr GDHP
Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel.
Distance: 10 feet.
Chronograph: Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph G2.
Five shot velocity average: 1104, 1044fps
Gel Temperature 70 degrees.

A few years ago I did a test of the Speer 124gr GDHP in +P and have been meaning to do the same in the standard pressure. I thought it could be an interesting comparison and see if the extra velocity makes any real-world difference.

With the three recorded shot out of the Glock 19, I got an average velocity of 1185fps. The penetration pf the two rounds in the bare gel was 14 and 14.5 inches of penetration. Bothe bullets expanded to .64 inches.
When the +P version was shot into the heavy clothing covered gel it's penetration was 19.25 and 17.25 inches with an expansion of .52 and .56 inches.

With the standard presser loading, I got an average velocity of 1104fps from the P229 with a high of 1112 and a low of 1093fps. From the Kahr MK9, the average velocity was 1044fps with a high of 1059 and a low of 1036fps.


Five rounds off hand at ten yards, P229

The first round in the bare gel had a velocity of 1098fps and penetrated to 16 inches. The recovered diameter was .58 inches and the recovered weight was 124.1 grains. The second round's velocity was 1101fps and its expansion was .59 inches. It penetrated to 15.5 inches and weighed 124.7 grains.



In the heavy clothed gel, the first round had a velocity of 1105fps and its penetration was 17 inches. The recovered diameter was .53 inches and the recovered weight was 124.6 grains. Round two's velocity was 1099fps and it penetrated to 20 inches. The expansion was .56 inches and the recovered weight was 124.4 grains.



The first round from the MK9 into the bare gel hit the block at 1033fps and penetrated to 15.5 inches with an expanded diameter of .56 inches. The recovered weight was 124.6 grains. The final round's velocity was 1048fps and it also penetrated to 15.5 inches. the recovered diameter was also .56 inches and the recovered weight was 123.9 grains.

[5pins]

Test Gun: Smith and Wesson model 65. Barrel length: 3 inches.
Ammunition: Liberty's .357 Magnum 50gr Civil Defense.
Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel. Distance: 10 feet.
Chronograph: Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph G2.
Five shot velocity average: fps 1796fps
Gel Temperature 70 degrees.

This is an interesting round that consists of 50gr all copper bullet with a large hollow point. The idea was the bullet would fragment early upon entering the target. The hollow part of the bullet breaks off into smaller pieces and radiates away from the main path of the bullet core which would then driver deeper in the target.

Using the S&W M65 I got an average velocity of 1796fps with a high of 1860 and a low of 1746fps. Liberty list this load's velocity of this round at 2100fps but doesn't list a barrel length. The point of impact was about 3 inches low at 10 yards.


Five round offhand at 10 yards. Point of aim was at #3

The first round in the bare gel exited the top of the block at the 7.5 inches mark. No velocity was recorded and the bullet core was not recovered. The fragmenting portion of the bullet started at about the 2.5-inch mark and stopped at about the 3.5-inch mark. The weight of the fragments was 10.1 grains. The second round's velocity was 1786fps and the core penetrated to 16 inches. The fragmentation was 2 to 4 inches deep and the weight of the recovered fragments was 6.3 grains. The recovered weight of the core was 36.2 grains.





In the covered gel, the first round had a velocity of 1716fps and the core penetrated to 12.5 inches and weighed 36.2 grains. The bullet fragments 2.5 to 3 inches and had a recovered weight of 16.8 grains. The second round's velocity was 1718fps and the bullet's core penetrated to 11 inches and weighed in at 36.3 grains. The fragments went from 2 to 2.5 inches and weighed 10.5 grains.



The fragments from all loads spread from 2 to 3 inches from the main bullet path.

[The_Shadow]

Thanks 5Pins!  Great info all the way around!

[Kenk]

Was just looking at their 10mm / 60gr fragmental Ammo, WOW!, thanks again for your efforts

Ken


Civil Defense Ammunition Specifications:

   10mm Auto
Description:   Copper Monolithic, Hollow-Point, Fragmenting, Lead-Free, Personal Defense Round
Weight:   60 gr.
Velocity:   >2,400 FPS
Kinetic Energy:   >780 FPE
Accuracy:   >2" @ 25mtrs
Terminal Effect:   4 -1/2" W x 12" D

[5pins]

Test Gun: S&W M442
Barrel length: 1 7/8 inches.
Ammunition: Winchester .38 Spl 130gr +P PDX1 Bonded
Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel.
Distance: 10 feet.
Chronograph: Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph G2.
Five shot velocity average: 846fps
Gel Temperature 71 degrees.

I got an average 5 shot average velocity of 846fps with a high of 871 and a low of 830fps.


Five rounds off-hand at 5 yards.

Round one in the bare gel had a velocity of 852fps and penetrated to 12.5 inches. The recovered diameter was .58 inches and the weight was 129.3 grains. The second round had a velocity of 835fps and penetrated to 13.5 inches. It's recovered weight was 128.2 grains and expansion was .59 inches.



When shot through the heavy clothing the first round's velocity was not recorded. It didn't expand and the recovered weight was 129.5 and it penetrated to 22 inches. The second round also did not expand and penetrated to 18 inches. Its velocity was 797fps and the recovered weight was 129 grains.

[38-40]

While reading this thread I find it interesting how many hollow points fail to open when fired through cloth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rojo27]

While reading this thread I find it interesting how many hollow points fail to open when fired through cloth.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The heavily clothing & multiply layers can be very challenging to traditional hollow points, even more so for the slower moving varieties and calibers. 

[5pins]

Test Gun: Sig P229, Kahr Mk9.
Barrel length: 3.9, 3 inches.
Ammunition: Liberty's 9mm +P 50gr Civil Defense
Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel.
Distance: 10 feet.
Chronograph: Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph G2.
Five shot velocity average: 2026fps Sig
Gel Temperature 70 degrees.

Following on the heels of the .357 Civil Defense, I tried the 9mm version of it. This bullet appears to be the same as the .357 loading but in this case with a little more velocity. More then likely the velocity difference is to do to the barrel length difference.

From the Sig P229, I got an average 5 shot velocity of 2026fps with a high of 2041 and a low of 2008fps. The point of aim point of impact was much better than with the .357.



The first round out of the Sig P229 had a velocity of 2052fps. Fragments were recovered from the 3.5 to 5.5-inch range. The bullet core penetrated to 10.25 inches and had a recovered weight of 27 grains. The weight of the recovered fragments was 17.9 grains. The second round's velocity was 2040fps and the bullet fragmented at 3.5 to 4.5 inches. The bullets core was recovered at 11.75 inches and weighed 29 grains. The recovered fragment's weight was 22 grains.



When shooting through heavy clothing the first round hit the block at 2043fps. The bullet's fragmentation started at 2.5 inches and continued to the 4-inch mark. The bullet core penetrated to 11.75 inches and had a recovered weight of 29.3 grains. The recovered fragment's weight was 16.6 grains. The second round had a velocity of 2058fps and the core penetrated to 10.25 inches. Fragmentation was 3.5 to 4.5 inches. The total weight of the fragments was 17.9 grains and the core was 27 grains.



When fired through the Kahr MK9 the first round had a velocity of 1890fps and began fragmenting at 3.25 inches and continued to 4.5 inches. The core penetrated to 10.5 inches and had a recovered weight of 29.5 grains. The second round's velocity was 1870fps and its fragmentation was 3.5 to 4 inches. The total weight of the fragments was 22.2 grains. The core penetrated to 11.25 inches and its weight was 27.3 grains.

[Kenk]

Impressive...Thanks man!

[5pins]

Test Gun: Sig P229.
Barrel length: 3.9 inches.
Ammunition: Cor Bon .357 Sig 125gr JHP
Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel. Distance: 10 feet. Chronograph: Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph G2. Five shot velocity average: 1397fps
Gel Temperature 70 degrees.

It's been a long time since I used Cor Bon ammo. Back in the late '80s, it was my load of choice in the 9mm. A lot has changed since then and ammo today is no exception. At the time their 115gr JHP +P was the cats meow so to speak. If my chronograph at the time was to be believed I was getting almost 1300fps out of my Glock 19.

This test was the first time I have shot any Cor Bon in forever but I decided to pick up some in my recent ammo buying spree. It's also been a while since I tested any .357 Sig, so I got it in that caliber. As we will see, it was unfortunately wrought with problems.

I got a five-shot average velocity of 1397fps with a high of 1493 and a low of 1355fps. That's a 138fps extreme spread.


Five shot at ten yards offhand.

When picking up the fired cases I noticed that one of the cases had blown a primer. At that point, I decided to check every case as it came out of the gun.



The first round across the chronograph had a velocity of 1335fps, and when I picked up the case it had a noticeable crack around it about midway up the case. It was also visible on the inside of the case as well.





At this point, a smarter man would have stopped, but I'm not a smarter man and decided to move forward. There were no other blown primers or cracked cases for the rest of the four rounds.

The first round into the bare gel had a velocity of 1410fps and penetrated to 16 inches. The recovered weight was 91 grains and it expanded to .48 inches. Round two. Wait, what happened to round two. The round would not chamber and I discovered the previous round had a case head separation and the front portion was still in the chamber. I tried to find the case from the first shot before loading the second but I couldn't. I finally found the back portion the case after looking some more.





At this point, I became a smarter man and stopped. After getting the front half of the case out of the chamber I fired 20 rounds of some Sig FMJ and a few Sig V-Crown I had left over. There was no blown primes or cracked cases.