My experience with the 10mm EAA Witness polymer frame

[Raggedyman]

So my wife bought me an EAA Witness polymer frame in 10mm for Christmas two years ago and I'd like to share my experiences so far.





To begin with, there aren't a whole lot of holster options for the Witness and less for the polymer frame version. Jason at http://www.tcbfirearms.com took really good care of me and made a holster for my gun with about a week or so turnaround. He even drove out to the Phoenix Rod and Gun Club from Queen Creek, AZ (about 45 miles but he was kinda sorta in the area) to pick up my gun. The TCB holster fits the pistol very well with excellent retention. He made it exactly to my specifications.





Recently, I found out that Alien Gear carries a holster to fit the polymer frame Witness and my wife bought one for me for my birthday. At $30, it is an outstanding deal. It's an hybrid design like Crossbreed or MTAC. It is thicker than my Crossbreed and the holster shell sticks out a bit. This might allow more clothing lint and dust to get into the pistol over time but it's too early to tell. It came with a bag of extra hardware to allow for changing cant or replacing lost screws. It has a lifetime no questions asked type of warranty and they'll swap the kydex shell at any time for a different gun type free of charge but extra shells only cost $10. At $30 for the whole thing, though, I see no reason not to have a holster for each gun you own. If you haven't tried an hybrid leather/kydex IWB holster, you really ought to give this one a try.





Initially, the pistol functioned pretty well so long as it was very clean. I polished the feed ramp and it would last a little longer before it had the occasional issue. Almost immediately, I replaced the factory recoil spring with a 22lb Wolff spring because I had heard that Witnesses can get cracked slides, especially the standard, rounded slide like I have. A stiffer recoil spring is supposed to help mitigate the problem. Unfortunately, it also means higher slide velocity on the way forward and this, combined with full power 10mm loads seems to mean that the slide outruns the magazine every now and then.





Sometimes the case rim just doesn't really make it under the extractor and sometimes the slide completely overruns the case head. The obvious solution would be to lighten the recoil spring (at the risk of cracking the slide) or to get extra power magazine springs. Unfortunately, there are no 10mm extra power springs available, so far as I know. Wolff carries them for every other caliber the Witness comes in except 10mm. So I'm left with going back to the factory recoil spring which should keep things running well but time will tell. It's also worth noting that this pistol REALLY doesn't like 1.255" COAL hand loads. They fit the magazine and hand cycle but they'll jam up the slide every time. 1.250" loads work just fine. I may eventually take a file to the back side of the extractor and try to open that gap up just a bit but I'm hesitant to remove metal there as I'm sure it would void EAA's gossamer warranty and that area's tolerance is pretty critical.

Then, a couple months ago, the trigger bar broke. Yes, it just plain broke. It shouldn't be subjected to any more stress in 10mm than in other calibers but it just broke. To the credit of the design of the pistol, it still functioned correctly in single action, just not in double action.





I called EAA and returned the pistol for service, detailing both the cycling issues (neglecting to mention anything about hand loads) and the broken trigger bar in a letter, with photos illustrating the problems. While they did accept the pistol for service, they were nowhere near as eager and accommodating as other manufacturers have been in my experience. The turnaround was pretty decent, about two weeks if I remember right. They replaced the trigger bar and "adjusted the barrel," whatever the hell that means. No change in cycling so I can't go back to the heavier recoil spring.

Aside from the mechanical problems, the pistol feels really nice in the hand and I believe the polymer frame helps reduce felt recoil a bit by flexing. The thumb safety is a little bit of a reach for my thumb but I have carny fingers. The pistol is more accurate than I am but that's not saying a lot because I'm not really that great with a handgun. The overall quality of the parts is medium to low. There are several places on the slide where tooling marks were left but the fit of the parts is good. The trigger is heavy but smooth in double action, with a clean break and a little over travel. In single action, it is light but there is some noticeable creep and still some over travel. The creep is relatively smooth, though. I'd compare it to a Ruger P series trigger, but less grittiness in the creep on the single action. In short, it's perfectly workable for a defensive pistol but not exactly match grade. The magazine release and slide catch are easy to operate but don't extend so far as to be annoying. The texture of the grip is pretty aggressive, which I prefer but might be a bit much for some folks. The sights that came on it had the point of impact about 8" high at 20 yards so I replaced them with an extra high rear sight and filed it down until it met the point of impact.

With all the problems I've had, you might think I'd hate the pistol but I guess I'm a forgiving soul when it comes to guns. I can't help but like this gun. I think you might be better off getting one of the match, hunter, limited, etc. models, though.


Update:

Got it back today. They "replaced and fit the front insert." Haven't shot it yet. On this trip back I didn't send a magazine with it and I forgot to include a check for shipping but they sent the pistol back with a magazine and without complaining about the shipping charge.

Update:

Ran several magazines through the gun Monday. No stoppages with handloaded 155 gr Berry's plated or 180 and 200 gr XTP. Hopefully this will be the last trip back to EAA. I strongly recommend that anyone looking into a 10mm Witness get at least a steel frame standard model but the Match or Hunter versions are probably a much better deal. The trigger isn't great and the gun just isn't as accurate as I'd like. I was shooting at a 12" plate at 150 yards and once I had the elevation, I still struggled to hit the plate with round landing a foot or two high, low, left, and right and only occasional hits. With my wife's S&W Model 13 I'm able to hit the target consistently, maybe about half the time. I really want to like this pistol because it has a lot of positive attributes but I'm also pretty disappointed.

[Intercooler]

My first 10mm was a Polymer.  I almost hung up 10mm because of how bad it ran. Took a second chance on a Match and the rest is history! Match on up are pretty stellar!

[Raggedyman]

That's what I've heard. I'll keep trying for a little while before I make it someone else's problem. That's the funny thing about shitty customer service. If they fixed it right in the first place, they'd have a great reputation. Give people the runaround and don't invest time and they get frustrated and pass it on, making multiple bad impressions for your product.

Maybe Henning would be willing to take a stab at it.

[Intercooler]

   I traded mine in on a brand new GP100 .357 to a gun shop. It may have been someone else's problem but not directly from me  I just couldn't do that.

    My Hunter is a sweet shooter too but the Limited is an amazing piece. Part of why I bought a second and own for Witness pieces. If I were to give you a piece of advice trade it in on something you may want and/or get a Match, Limited, Hunter or Stock II. We have a member here that will be rolling out his Stock II 10mm sometime down the road. Hopefully he posts a glaring review on it!

   

[Intercooler]

Hard to believe I WAS DONE at this point:

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/topic/99046-leaving-the-10mm-camp-its-been-fun-and-a-real-learning-selling-some-ammo-too/?hl=%2Bpolymer+%2B10mm


  Issues will irritate the crap out of you but if you get a good one or three things are much better! The Razorback was a little finicky to my liking too so it set sail. Hating seeing the Match go but it served well and re-sold well to get the one I had my eye on. In that case I actually got more than I paid for it 

[Intercooler]

Someone was thinking along your line of thought about the same time!


http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=183389#entry2024736

[Raggedyman]

So I went back to the factory spring and I had no stoppages but I can feel several distinct "kerchunks" as the slide wanders on forward. I guess I should have gotten the calibration kit from Wolff instead of going straight for the 22lb spring. I really want to use the stiffest spring available to avoid a cracked slide but that would require a stiffer magazine spring and it doesn't seem that such an animal exists.

[pacapcop]

Had similar issues with the compact steel. EAA replaced entire pistol with new/current model with squared off slide. I put in a Wolff 18 lb spring and as a whole performed 90%. It is a great pistol too shoot,very accurate. Also the mags suck. If they were available in the Mec Gar K10 style like the full size i bet pistol would function. That being said,the Fullsize base models in steel now are more better in quality control dept.K10 mags,newer slides,full size only.Glock has the compact dept hands down. Now for me at this time, I went full tilt and plopped down some coin on the Stock II. Hopefully by Christmas.And that will be it for awhile,im getting serious vibes
from the boss.Im on lock down for awhile.

[Intercooler]

 Buy first and apologize later   Use Flowers or a dinner 

[Raggedyman]

Household Six bought my Witness for me as a Christmas gift. I have no business complaining.

[Raggedyman]

Just when I'm starting to be happy with the gun again, this happens. Whiskey. Tango. Fox.

[Intercooler]

What area broke?


            If it's the slide they should put you a good one on there (insist on it!). The other option is having them upgrade you to a Match! Possibly have them convert it to a DA/SA there or just do it at your leisure.

[Raggedyman]

One of the frame rails broke off. I think they are pretty limited in what they can actually fix since the manufacturing is done in Italy. I'm sure they'll have to replace the frame, which probably means a whole 'nother pistol. I'd like a Match or similar but I don't know if they're willing to do that in exchange for a polymer frame pistol and it would mean all new holsters. 

[The_Shadow]

Damn that sucks!  Best of luck getting it swapped out or made whole!

[Raggedyman]

Thanks, guys. Should've got a G20 SF in the first place.