Best cleaner for lead and copper?

[chucky2]

I've used FrogLube CLP since I got my new G20 Gen4.  I've shot maybe 1000-1500 rounds so far, so figured for maintenance and practice, and as a pre-prep for putting on new sights (Trijicon HD orange), I'd detail clean the gun out.  It'll be my first time ever doing that on a pistol, so it'll be fun and a good learning experience.  For the hell of it, I bought a Harbor Freight 2.6 quart ultrasonic cleaner (I'll use it for other stuff not just the pistol) and some Simple Green Extreme (the aircraft aluminum safe stuff).

So I've got the cleaning and lube aspect all set.  What I don't know about is product for removing lead and copper from the barrel.  I don't have a lot of buildup but I'd like to scrub them out prior to ultrasonic cleaning them (I have the stock, KKM .40 conversion, and an Advantage Arms .22 conversion), but I'm not sure what would remove both?

Any suggestions?

Chuck

[DM1906]

Chore-Boy, dry.

[chucky2]

This thing?



How do I get that all down the bore???

Chuck

[Yondering]

A bit of chore-boy wrapped around a bore brush for lead. Make sure it's the copper kind, not plastic.

I prefer wipe-out or other similar foaming bore cleaner for copper, to reduce the number of trips a cleaning rod makes down the bore. (Not as much of a concern with pistols, but a cleaning rod can wear a rifle bore as much as actually shooting it, for those who like to scrub their barrels too often.)

[Steve4102]

A bit of chore-boy wrapped around a bore brush for lead. Make sure it's the copper kind, not plastic.

I prefer wipe-out or other similar foaming bore cleaner for copper, to reduce the number of trips a cleaning rod makes down the bore. (Not as much of a concern with pistols, but a cleaning rod can wear a rifle bore as much as actually shooting it, for those who like to scrub their barrels too often.)

^^^This^^^

Chore-Boy wrapped around a brush for lead and Wipe-Out foam for Copper.  Doesn't get any better and simpler than that.

[The_Shadow]

Well I haven't had difficult leading issues, minor streaks at the most.  However I use Hoppes #9 bore cleaner to wet a wrapped  patch around a good bronze wire brush, one patch layer over the entire brush(the whetted patch holds the bore cleaner and collects any fouling as you pull it through the bore).  I pull it through the chamber and down the bore which leaves a good amount of Hoppes #9 in the bore, let this soak for a few minutes.  Then peal the patch off the wire brush and re wrap using the other side of the patch and repeat. If you find more after dry patching, repeat!

The wrapped patch tends to hold the bronze brush bristles standing up to allow it to reach the edges of the lands and grooves.  The Chore Boy helps if the fouling is heavier and sort of scrapes out layer by layer.

I did use the ChoreBoy product to clean a lady friend's 357 Mag revolver that was so badly leaded that the bore looked to be about 0.308" (She was using Winchster 357Mag lead rounds, what a mess that was).  I worked with it for quite some time but did manage to clean it totally.  Be sure to allow the solvents to work their magic.  Also understand some solvents can damage or discolor metal finishes and/or wood finishes and rubber products.  Be careful and apply only as and where needed!

[sqlbullet]

Ed's Red

http://www.handloads.com/articles/?id=9

[chucky2]

Guys, thanks for the replies!

One question I have on the above recommedations is, Are there any that work well that don't involve ammonia and that don't have oil in them?

After cleaning with this stuff and the ultrasonic, I'll re-FrogLube the barrel.  I'd rather have the cleaner just be a cleaner and not a cleaner and oiler.  Does that make sense?

[sqlbullet]

Others may have some suggestions.  I don't.

The reason many cleaners have various petroleum compounds in them is not to oil, but to loosen carbon deposits.  The oils are the penetrating variety, and don't really provide much lubrication.

[The_Shadow]

The use of some oil in the bore will help keep lead and copper fouling from sticking and/or accumulating.  Remember jacketed bullets are a copper alloy which contains copper and zinc, 100% total copper, can foul some as well.

Swedged and cast bullets are very different in their properties, the biggest being alloy composition, as well as hardness and diameter.
When using lead alloy bullet fit is very important and quality lubes help to eliminate fouling and/or build up.  Some combinations of alloyed bullets are being shot at 2500 fps and even to 3000 fps with no leading of the bores.

[chucky2]

sqlbullet

Right, but on their descriptons they have statements like "Protective film to prevent rusting" or "Treats barrel for rust prevention" or some other such thing.  Ideally I want none of that in there, as I'm going to FL the inside of the barrel after the ultrasonic.

The_Shadow

I just shoot copper jacketed stuff in all the barrels so far (at least as far as I can remember), don't have any plans for cast unfortunately; I'd really love to reload I just have no time and no space to do so.  The lubcrication would be FL after the ultrasonic...that's why I'm looking for a cleaner that can clean but doesn't have any protective properties built into it.

Probably what I'm looking for doesn't exist...I mean, most people that clean their barrels with a cleaner for barrels are going to want a rust inhibitor, so probably all these cleaners build them in - if not for anything else than to prevent someone saying "I used product x and it rusted my barrel!"

My search continues...I thank you all for the suggestions!

[Yondering]

After cleaning with this stuff and the ultrasonic, I'll re-FrogLube the barrel.  I'd rather have the cleaner just be a cleaner and not a cleaner and oiler.  Does that make sense?

FrogLube is one of those 3 in 1 cleaner/oiler formulas, like CLP. At least the bottle I have is... I'm not sold on it myself, and prefer to use a real oil for lubrication and rust prevention, which the FL is not.

[Yondering]

Well I haven't had difficult leading issues, minor streaks at the most.  However I use Hoppes #9 bore cleaner to wet a wrapped  patch around a good bronze wire brush, one patch layer over the entire brush(the whetted patch holds the bore cleaner and collects any fouling as you pull it through the bore).  I pull it through the chamber and down the bore which leaves a good amount of Hoppes #9 in the bore, let this soak for a few minutes.  Then peal the patch off the wire brush and re wrap using the other side of the patch and repeat. If you find more after dry patching, repeat!

The wrapped patch tends to hold the bronze brush bristles standing up to allow it to reach the edges of the lands and grooves.  The Chore Boy helps if the fouling is heavier and sort of scrapes out layer by layer.

I did use the ChoreBoy product to clean a lady friend's 357 Mag revolver that was so badly leaded that the bore looked to be about 0.308" (She was using Winchster 357Mag lead rounds, what a mess that was).  I worked with it for quite some time but did manage to clean it totally.  Be sure to allow the solvents to work their magic.  Also understand some solvents can damage or discolor metal finishes and/or wood finishes and rubber products.  Be careful and apply only as and where needed!

If you're doing it right, a chore-boy wrapped brush works for a little or a lot of leading, with no solvents, and the result is a bright shiny bore. If it took a long time to clean that 357, and you needed solvent, something wasn't right with your brush. Even heavy leading should only take about 30 seconds to scrub out, and it works better dry, IMO.

[chucky2]

After cleaning with this stuff and the ultrasonic, I'll re-FrogLube the barrel.  I'd rather have the cleaner just be a cleaner and not a cleaner and oiler.  Does that make sense?

FrogLube is one of those 3 in 1 cleaner/oiler formulas, like CLP. At least the bottle I have is... I'm not sold on it myself, and prefer to use a real oil for lubrication and rust prevention, which the FL is not.

I don't know how good it really is as a C though.  They have their Solvent now for cleaning, so I'd be inclined to think that it has minor C abilities and is more in the LP category.  So far it's worked well for my usages, buy admittedly, my usage is extremely easy.  As far as the P, there is a video of a guy doing a 'plate of truth' test on it, and it seems to work pretty well in that test.

I often wonder though what an oil like Redline would do.  It's a Group V, ester based, so it has a high affinity for metal.  It is loaded with moly and ZDDP, which should work great on the metal to metal parts.  I've never looked into if they offer greases, and if they did, if they'd be Group V as well, and what their add pack would be, but I'd bet their oil or gear lube alone would keep a firearm going strong for quite a long.  Probably anything that provides boundary instead of barrier lubrication would work well.

Chuck

[The_Shadow]

Well I haven't had difficult leading issues, minor streaks at the most.  However I use Hoppes #9 bore cleaner to wet a wrapped  patch around a good bronze wire brush, one patch layer over the entire brush(the whetted patch holds the bore cleaner and collects any fouling as you pull it through the bore).  I pull it through the chamber and down the bore which leaves a good amount of Hoppes #9 in the bore, let this soak for a few minutes.  Then peal the patch off the wire brush and re wrap using the other side of the patch and repeat. If you find more after dry patching, repeat!

The wrapped patch tends to hold the bronze brush bristles standing up to allow it to reach the edges of the lands and grooves.  The Chore Boy helps if the fouling is heavier and sort of scrapes out layer by layer.

I did use the ChoreBoy product to clean a lady friend's 357 Mag revolver that was so badly leaded that the bore looked to be about 0.308" (She was using Winchster 357Mag lead rounds, what a mess that was).  I worked with it for quite some time but did manage to clean it totally.  Be sure to allow the solvents to work their magic.  Also understand some solvents can damage or discolor metal finishes and/or wood finishes and rubber products.  Be careful and apply only as and where needed!

If you're doing it right, a chore-boy wrapped brush works for a little or a lot of leading, with no solvents, and the result is a bright shiny bore. If it took a long time to clean that 357, and you needed solvent, something wasn't right with your brush. Even heavy leading should only take about 30 seconds to scrub out, and it works better dry, IMO.

This was in the early 80's and before I found Chore Boy copper pads, I used the Lewis cleaner at that time, it required  more that one or two passes to remove that blockage...Worst leading I had ever seen!