I have mention this before....

The_Shadow · September 05 2013 05:34:52 PM MDT

Yes ever since the development of the 40Short & Weak we have seen the 0.400" bullets being made for that ballistic performance leaving the 10mm shooters limited performance projectiles at true 10mm velocities...this started back in Jan 5th 1989, when the FBI specified and down loaded the official "FBI 10mm Load" being a 180gr JHP @ 980 fps (SUBSONIC) Their test were originally performed using Federal 10mm cartridges pushing a Sierra 180gr JHP @ 1035fps from a 6" test barrel.

"Are modern JHP unable to withstand 10mm full power loads?"...Being talked about on GlockTalk

http://www.reddit.com/r/10mm/comments/1cswli/bullet_manufacturers_suck_please_make_modern_jhp/

gandog56 · September 06 2013 10:18:03 AM MDT

I use the exact same bullet for either. They are really good in either, too.

.40 S&W target

10mm Target

Mike_Fontenot · September 06 2013 11:31:25 AM MDT

Quote from: The_Shadow on September 05 2013 05:34:52 PM MDT
[...]

Thanks for posting that link ... very interesting ... I wouldn't have known about it otherwise.

I carry DT 155gr nosler and 180gr nosler (alternating in the mags), so that link was especially of interest to me. I also previously saw the video of an Underwood 180gr GD that separated from the jacket in ballistic gelatin ... but that guy DID say that he had never seen so much damage done to the gelatin block, so at those speeds and weights, 10mm bullets may still be very effective even with separation or fragmentation. The only exception would be if the bullet stayed together but didn't expand at all, which would probably result in only a small amount of the bullet's energy staying in the target (unless there is a lot of shock damage, which most people think is unlikely at anything less than rifle velocities).

I do agree, though, that it is unlikely that the same bullet used in both 10mm and .40 could perform optimally for both ... problem is, we're such a small fraction of the market that no one will be willing to spend the money to develop a bullet especially for 10mm.

Mike_Fontenot · September 06 2013 11:36:08 AM MDT

Quote from: gandog56 on September 06 2013 10:18:03 AM MDT
I use the exact same bullet for either. They are really good in either, too.

The issue being raised is not how well they both do on a paper target, but rather, how well they both do in ballistic gelatin (or more important, how well they both do in bad guys).

The_Shadow · September 06 2013 12:01:44 PM MDT

I was looking over these bullets day before yesterday...
Check out this video...

This is there website... http://site.cuttingedgebullets.com/

Mike_Fontenot · September 06 2013 12:34:24 PM MDT

Quote
This is there website... http://site.cuttingedgebullets.com/

I had similar results for a watermelon years ago, with my .41Mag with 210gr Remington softpoints ... it rained tiny bits of disintegrated watermelon for what seemed like forever ... I got completely covered, even though it was about 15 feet away when I shot it. That experience made me a bit skeptical about the "common knowledge" that handgun rounds never go fast enough to cause a permanent cavity.

DM1906 · September 06 2013 08:56:33 PM MDT

Quote from: Mike_Fontenot on September 06 2013 12:34:24 PM MDT
Quote
This is there website... http://site.cuttingedgebullets.com/

I had similar results for a watermelon years ago, with my .41Mag with 210gr Remington softpoints ... it rained tiny bits of disintegrated watermelon for what seemed like forever ... I got completely covered, even though it was about 15 feet away when I shot it. That experience made me a bit skeptical about the "common knowledge" that handgun rounds never go fast enough to cause a permanent cavity.

There's a world of difference between hydraulic impact effect (handgun velocity - macro), and hydrostatic shock (high power rifle velocity - micro). Shooting a melon with a handgun, you'll see hydraulic impact effect, not hydrostatic shock. "Permanent cavity" is a really poor term, which is commonly used to describe a condition that could really be anything. A hole through a body is pretty much, a "permanent cavity", just the same. If they die, it's permanent. If they live, it will heal, so not so much permanent.

Melons aren't very aggressive, and not much of a game animal, but you can kill the hell out of 'em with a .41 Mag. One of my favorite pastimes.

krafcheck · September 07 2013 07:28:18 PM MDT

The last comment on that link said copper bullets hold together the best. Is that a true statement?

DM1906 · September 07 2013 07:49:50 PM MDT

Quote from: krafcheck on September 07 2013 07:28:18 PM MDT
The last comment on that link said copper bullets hold together the best. Is that a true statement?

Yes, for the most part. Copper hollowpoints may shed a petal or two on occasion, but much less often than lead core bullets, with significantly greater bullet weight retention.

krafcheck · September 07 2013 08:28:23 PM MDT

I will have to pay more attention to them. I tought they were just a environmental friendly round that cost a lot. Did california ever pass the law banning lead bullets?

DM1906 · September 07 2013 09:12:53 PM MDT

Quote from: krafcheck on September 07 2013 08:28:23 PM MDT
I will have to pay more attention to them. I tought they were just a environmental friendly round that cost a lot. Did california ever pass the law banning lead bullets?

Yes and no, on the lead ban. Since 2008, lead hunting bullets are banned in the "condor range". The later ban BS is an attempt to ban them statewide, for all hunting, or taking of any animal. It will still be legal to shoot people with lead, though. We're fighting tooth and nail to stop it, but the research and truth is irrelevant here. It will probably pass. It's all based on junk science. Pure political hogwash. The agenda is to outlaw hunting entirely. It won't really matter, if things continue the way they are now. There will be only animals left in this state. Any people with any sense will have left.

Some of the bullets perform well, as well and better than lead core bullets in some cases. In many calibers, they're useless. I've loaded them all and have some favorites.

krafcheck · September 08 2013 04:15:50 PM MDT

Yeah I've done a little research today and from what I can tell they have to be a light grained bullet due to copper being so light and going heavy will take a lot of the powder room up.

Well maybe Hornady or somebody will develop a 10mm only bullet design. But for now im happy with a meteroite end product. I feel the 10 is starting to get popular. I sure do want that RIA 1911 in a 10. The 10 is just so versatile.

Shadow Bear · September 08 2013 04:48:38 PM MDT

Quote from: krafcheck on September 08 2013 04:15:50 PM MDT
Yeah I've done a little research today and from what I can tell they have to be a light grained bullet due to copper being so light and going heavy will take a lot of the powder room up.

Well maybe Hornady or somebody will develop a 10mm only bullet design. But for now im happy with a meteroite end product. I feel the 10 is starting to get popular. I sure do want that RIA 1911 in a 10. The 10 is just so versatile.

The RIA 10mm rocks! I've been feeding it some 155 JHP that I had in stock, over 11.5gn Blue Dot, and some Nosler 135 JHPs over 12.0. Feeds beautifully on either round.

Very accurate in either load.

krafcheck · September 08 2013 08:47:08 PM MDT

I'm jealous . I have yet to hear a bad review.

gandog56 · September 08 2013 09:49:23 PM MDT

Quote from: Mike_Fontenot on September 06 2013 11:36:08 AM MDT
Quote from: gandog56 on September 06 2013 10:18:03 AM MDT
I use the exact same bullet for either. They are really good in either, too.

The issue being raised is not how well they both do on a paper target, but rather, how well they both do in ballistic gelatin (or more important, how well they both do in bad guys).

It doesn't matter what it will do to the gelatin....if you don't hit it!