Why 10mm?

[Bro KV]

Because its awesome

[sqlbullet]

...it seems odd to me that this is an "oddball round"

I am not trying to bag on anyone for their choice of cartridge.  It's your life, bet how you will.

But, I think it is an 'oddball' round because even people who should know better about it's performance don't.  I can't count the number of otherwise knowledgeable gun folks who have told me the FBI dropped the 10mm because of recoil and because the 40S&W was the "same thing".

And they don't realize the statement is contradictory.  If it is the "same thing" then the recoil (momentum - Newton's third law) is also the same thing.  Alternately, if recoil is really an issue, then it can't be the same thing.

Oddly, they are right and wrong but have it backwards.  The FBI went from a 40 S&W level load in a heavy 10mm gun to the same 40 S&W level load in a light gun.  So the FBI 10mm load is the same thing as the 40 S&W.

But, that means the free recoil the shooter feels had to go up, not down.  Same raw momentum, less gun weight to offset means more recoil to the shooter.  (Yes, I know you Glock guys are saying the frame flexes and the recoil feels different.  Which I will stipulate as long as you concede that it would still be less recoil in a Glock 20 vs a Glock 23).

End result, much of the shooting public perceives the 10mm as a hard recoiling round that is expensive to obtain and has no better terminal performance than the 40 S&W.  Which is why it is important for us to evangelize the round at the range. Pass the gun around.  Talk about the FBI 10mm Lite and how it is loaded 400 fps under 10mm spec.  Mention that you can buy factory ammo online for the same price as 45 acp, and that deals can be found that put it near 40 S&W sometimes.

[alwaysshootin]

Why 10MM? Because of this!

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/18/florida-customer-shoots-suspects-during-internet-cafe-robbery/

If 71 year old, concealed carry holder, would have carried efficient, over comfortable, two felons. would not have made an escape. Nor, would there be a trial pending.

[sqlbullet]

I said much the same thing in our thread on that incident.

[DM1906]

...it seems odd to me that this is an "oddball round"

I am not trying to bag on anyone for their choice of cartridge.  It's your life, bet how you will.

But, I think it is an 'oddball' round because even people who should know better about it's performance don't.  I can't count the number of otherwise knowledgeable gun folks who have told me the FBI dropped the 10mm because of recoil and because the 40S&W was the "same thing".

And they don't realize the statement is contradictory.  If it is the "same thing" then the recoil (momentum - Newton's third law) is also the same thing.  Alternately, if recoil is really an issue, then it can't be the same thing.

Oddly, they are right and wrong but have it backwards.  The FBI went from a 40 S&W level load in a heavy 10mm gun to the same 40 S&W level load in a light gun.  So the FBI 10mm load is the same thing as the 40 S&W.

But, that means the free recoil the shooter feels had to go up, not down.  Same raw momentum, less gun weight to offset means more recoil to the shooter.  (Yes, I know you Glock guys are saying the frame flexes and the recoil feels different.  Which I will stipulate as long as you concede that it would still be less recoil in a Glock 20 vs a Glock 23).

End result, much of the shooting public perceives the 10mm as a hard recoiling round that is expensive to obtain and has no better terminal performance than the 40 S&W.  Which is why it is important for us to evangelize the round at the range. Pass the gun around.  Talk about the FBI 10mm Lite and how it is loaded 400 fps under 10mm spec.  Mention that you can buy factory ammo online for the same price as 45 acp, and that deals can be found that put it near 40 S&W sometimes.

We, and the FBI, will never really know.  It's more than just Sir Newton, and the rounds.  They not only switched up the rounds, they also switched up the guns.  As we all know, weapons of different design manage (and pass to the shooter) recoil very differently.  If they had started with a different pistol the first time, they might be totin' the 10 today, and the .40 might have been a fart in the wind.  A different administration at the time may have lead to a similar conclusion, or not.

[REDLINE]

...it seems odd to me that this is an "oddball round"

I am not trying to bag on anyone for their choice of cartridge.  It's your life, bet how you will.

But, I think it is an 'oddball' round because even people who should know better about it's performance don't.  I can't count the number of otherwise knowledgeable gun folks who have told me the FBI dropped the 10mm because of recoil and because the 40S&W was the "same thing".

And they don't realize the statement is contradictory.  If it is the "same thing" then the recoil (momentum - Newton's third law) is also the same thing.  Alternately, if recoil is really an issue, then it can't be the same thing.

Oddly, they are right and wrong but have it backwards.  The FBI went from a 40 S&W level load in a heavy 10mm gun to the same 40 S&W level load in a light gun.  So the FBI 10mm load is the same thing as the 40 S&W.

But, that means the free recoil the shooter feels had to go up, not down.  Same raw momentum, less gun weight to offset means more recoil to the shooter.  (Yes, I know you Glock guys are saying the frame flexes and the recoil feels different.  Which I will stipulate as long as you concede that it would still be less recoil in a Glock 20 vs a Glock 23).

End result, much of the shooting public perceives the 10mm as a hard recoiling round that is expensive to obtain and has no better terminal performance than the 40 S&W.  Which is why it is important for us to evangelize the round at the range. Pass the gun around.  Talk about the FBI 10mm Lite and how it is loaded 400 fps under 10mm spec.  Mention that you can buy factory ammo online for the same price as 45 acp, and that deals can be found that put it near 40 S&W sometimes.

As usual you are spot on!  No FBI agent was ever issued a 10mm load above 40S&W power.  There was never an issue with recoil.  The issue came about when S&W and Federal (I think it was Federal) knocked on the FBI's door and said;  Hey guys, we have developed a new round that fits in a 9mm sized platform, utilizes the same bullets you shoot in your 10mms, at the same velocity, and the whole set-up is way less weight to boot!.....So what do you think.  The FBI said;  Sign us up!  And the rest is history.

The whole point was getting away from a boat anchor of a platform and switching to a 9mm sized platform without sacrificing what their 10mm load did.

There were a good handful of FBI agents out there who only reluctantly turned in their 10mm platforms when they couldn't come up with any more excuses or ways not to.  I don't really know why, I suppose a preconcieved misconception between what they had and what they were switching to, even though they were the same thing in different clothing.

[sqlbullet]

There were a good handful of FBI agents out there who only reluctantly turned in their 10mm platforms when they couldn't come up with any more excuses or ways not to.  I don't really know why, I suppose a preconcieved misconception between what they had and what they were switching to, even though they were the same thing in different clothing.

They were waiting for some Underwood ammo to carry

[Bro KV]

There were a good handful of FBI agents out there who only reluctantly turned in their 10mm platforms when they couldn't come up with any more excuses or ways not to.  I don't really know why, I suppose a preconcieved misconception between what they had and what they were switching to, even though they were the same thing in different clothing.

They were waiting for some Underwood ammo to carry

Haha, I carry Underwood JHP

[Maine1]

A few years ago in SQ magazine, i wrote an article titled "the 10mm as a  survival cartridge" This article stemmed from a discussion just like this one.

1) power
2) range
3) Flat useable trajectory
4) symbiosis with the G-20 in particular.
5) extremely versatile.
6) power AND capacity, Weight AND velocity
7) plat form can take any 10mm derivative with a drop on barrel change.

My hot 230gr loads in my g-21 have MORE recovery time that my hot 200 gr XTP loads in my 10mm. The 10mm recoil is "faster: at least it seems to be for me, and IIRC, it was .1 quicker on the timer. I'll have to try again.

The 10 is not for everybody, but if you can dedicate the time and effort, its worth it.

[REDLINE]

I guess the question should be;  Why not the 10mm?  But since an answer doesn't exist, I suppose the question is better asked as it was.