Why 10mm?

[Amsdorf]

Perhaps this is already posted here, but.....

Can somebody link me to a non-emotional, clear, cogent, intelligent presentation that would answer the question:

"Why use 10mm?"

Thanks.

[The_Shadow]

Try this and read it thoroughly...http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi_10mm_notes.pdf
I'll add that the FBI actually liked the 10mm for what it brought to the table, however their criterior is what changed their decision over the years.  The 40S&W was made to better fit their needs and criterior of 180grs JHP @ 980 fps for barriers, clothing, etc
Just remember LEO work in close proximity of each other, they have a duty to act and protect lives, they have force in numbers and they basicly try to bring someone to justice.

For me 10mm is a very versitile cartridge and can be loaded to many bullet weights and velocities from mild to wild and this speaks volumes for using it in any situation from Self Defensive to Hunting or just plain fun plinking!

[sqlbullet]

by definition a handgun is already a compromise between the power and accuracy needed to provide adequate defense and a package that can be comfortably carried at all times.

The 10mm represents one of the most powerful cartridges that can be chambered in a standard size handgun.  this somewhat mitigate this compromise.

additionally, for a budget handgun enthusiast the flexibility in handloading the 10mm means more can be accomplished with fewer guns in the arsenal.

[Amsdorf]

Try this and read it thoroughly...http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi_10mm_notes.pdf
I'll add that the FBI actually liked the 10mm for what it brought to the table, however their criterior is what changed their decision over the years.  The 40S&W was made to better fit their needs and criterior of 180grs JHP @ 980 fps for barriers, clothing, etc
Just remember LEO work in close proximity of each other, they have a duty to act and protect lives, they have force in numbers and they basicly try to bring someone to justice.

For me 10mm is a very versitile cartridge and can be loaded to many bullet weights and velocities from mild to wild and this speaks volumes for using it in any situation from Self Defensive to Hunting or just plain fun plinking!

Sir, wow, thank you. May I be blunt? I am grateful that this is a new and small forum. If I would have posted this elsewhere I would have to endure bullcrap answers until somebody finally offered up some very hard and cold factual data, as you have offered and as another member has offered.

Thank you very much.

[Shooter25]

My non-emotional reason for the 10mm:

I live in Nevada and hike the Sierra Nevada mountains on a regular basis. One day a mountain lion let me and my buddy know that we were not welcome in his parts. My 357 felt like a pee shooter even though it would more than likely do the job.

So I researched, crunched numbers, etc. It all came back to one cartridge. The 10mm. It can be very powerful, but not as obnoxious as the 44mag and 41 mag. It can be shot from easily packed and concealable platforms. It seemed the perfect cartridge for animal defense where I am and I where I roam. As an added benefit it is a great cartridge for self defense from two legged predators as well.

No emotion involved. I had a goal and the 10mm meets it.

[XYZ]

Try this and read it thoroughly...http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi_10mm_notes.pdf

Great read Shadow. Maybe some kind of sticky?

OP - the 1986 Miami shootout resulted in the FBI making a lot of changes. Select the Aftermatch Section in this reading:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout#section_3

For me it's just a fun, powerful caliber.

[loadedround]

Why the 10mm? I'm fond of it for two basic reasons:
1. It is a very powerful round in a 1911 style semi auto that is my favorite arm (1911A1 frame).
2. The 10mm round is a reloaders dream cartridge. You may load or buy jacketed rounds approaching the 41 mag in energy and velocity, and then can be loaded down with cast bullets to almost target velocities. In my sane rational opinion, it is the most versatile smi auto catridge available today. What more can be said?

[cwlongshot]

My most basic answer is, it works for me.

It has the power, accuracy and is chambered in some fine defensive firearms.

As other have said and can be said for most every caliber it's benifits can be far extended with reloading. Like the 41 Mag before it it was designed as a laws forcement caliber. On paper it was the optimally effective ballistics. In reality many could not handle it. Mostly because of lack of proper training. But the uneducated will simply blame the caliber as its human nature to "blame" as opposed to be personally accountable.

I feel thi gs would have been much different if the 10mm was introduced to The FBI in the G20/29 instead of the S&W. I have two Deltas and a G20 and the identical loads are quite different when fired in both.

CW


CW

[uz2bUSMC]

As others have said, versatility is probably the main attribute of the 10mm. This is a wide spectrum, however.

Let's take the G20 as an example. Talking platform specific, you can swap barrels allowing you to fire .40, .357 sig, 9x25 dillion etc. Ballistically, you can add a 6" bbl and push energy numbers up to around 1000ftlbs (little more if so willing) which is .41mag territory. Even with heavier cast bullets you can achieve over 800ftlbs which has been seen to provide through and throughs on full size black bear. 15+1 at this power level should be impressive in most anyone's book. The oposite would be soft handloads at or around .40 levels which would be a sweetheart to shoot out of a full sized pistol.

The 10mm also seems to be inherently accurate. I've placed nine rounds within 3 1/2" at 50 yds from a rest with my old G20, no doubt the measurement would have been smaller with a simple 3 shot string. A nice 1911 would have done even better.

On the personal defense issue many will argue light and fast vs heavy and slow. Why not 10mm? You can truly have your cake and eat it too. There is no "heavy and slow", there is heavy and fast or light and crazy fast. Most people find that the recoil is very manageable and redicoulously overstated once they get the opportunity to wring out a 10mm. Many people do not wish to add energy as an incapacitation factor but if it matters at some degree, you'll at least know that the 10mm has plenty to spare. Why hit your assailant soft when you can hammer them hard?

Most any task can be handled by our favored 10mm and if not... you probably should have used a rifle.

[REDLINE]

"Why use 10mm?"

Your question is hard to answer in not knowing what your specific intentions would be with it.  I'll attempt covering a few bases.

If it's just for the heck of it and you've got the money to blow, well then anything is fine even if for no good reason.

Purely for plinking?  If that's the case I would say to get something in 22LR that suits your fancy as it's fun and dirt cheap to shoot.

For hunting?  Well assuming we're limiting this discussion to stardard sized semi-auto pistols I would say it's a fun choice up to large hogs and black bear with appropriate loads that adds more challenge to the equation over using a rifle or shotgun.  And on top of that, for hunting, is a nice choice if you want the challenge of handgun hunting but don't want to haul around a five pound revolver or Desert Eagle pistol.  And at the same time it's a nice step up in power when appropriate loads are selected over the likes of 9mm Luger, 40 S&W, and 45 Auto, being capable of using heavier bullets than otherwise availble for the others in terms of sectional density.

For General Self Defense?  Well this is a no-brainer.  10mm in appropriate loads gives you the power of top 357 Magnum loads in an even larger caliber.  On top of that, in the likes of a Glock model 20 (G20) you get 15+1 capacity.  Even in the smaller Glock model 29 (G29) you get 10+1 in bone-stock form (or if you load a G20 mag into it which fits right in you can still have 15+1 capacity).  Not to mention the spare loaded mag(s) you may have with you.  Keep in mind to NOT buy into the hype by some regarding 10mm recoil.  Does it recoil more than 9, 40, or 45?  Yes.  Is it uncontrolable recoil by any stretch of the imagination?  No.  Also with the added power of 10mm over 9, 40, and 45, it also doubles quite well as a woods defense round.  A fair amount of Alaskan's have gone to it.

I know I kept my reasoning above fairly short and sweet.  If you have further questions or want more detail, just ask. 

[harrygunner]

Why 10mm? Interesting question.

I had read the FBI reports Urey Patrick's 1989 "Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness" and Patrick's "10mm Notes" cited by 'The_Shadow'. The "Notes" discussed the testing of four calibers, including a 10mm 180gr subsonic round. That 10mm scored a bit better than the .45 ACP 185gr JHP tested.

I looked at their test criteria and concluded that even though I'm not a LEO, I was willing to accept the cost of having a handgun that best met the FBI's needs.

Even if the probability of my needing FBI capabilities was lower, having them if needed was worth it to me. Ironically, the only time I ever thought I'd actually have to pull the trigger involved shooting into a car. Long story, but my wife and I were confronted as we walked at night by a group of thugs in a car. They did a 360 followed by a 180, then stopped within feet of us. They stayed, looking at us. Fortunately, I had a hammer shrouded .357 Mag inside my jacket pocket pointed at them while they sat there (and my 10mm on my belt). They drove off.

I had personally concluded the 10mm ballistic envelope largely overlapped the .357 Mag. The .357 Mag met my particular set of needs for hiking and travel to urban areas for business. That led me to buying my first 10mm, a Glock 29. The G29 is close in size and performance of a .357 4" revolver, with greater capacity and allows faster reloads.

I use supersonic, heavy loads because of thoughts I had when I was teaching a classical mechanics class for engineers.

I used to be on the physics faculty of a university that shows up pretty quickly on an Internet searches of top universities in the world. As I was writing the equation for momentum deltas in elastic collisions, I thought "Note to self: Drive heavy cars and use ammo with heavy bullets". Then, while exploring some specific models of much more complex inelastic collisions, my "note" was amended to have ammo with higher energy. It was obvious that high energy projectiles disturbed material further away in directions orthogonal to the direction of travel of the projectile. The math was simply showing what everyone knows, with equal weight bullets, a rifle will make bigger holes than a handgun.

Since handguns are under-powered, I wanted one further up the power scale, but one I personally, can shoot one handed with reasonable followup shot times.

All the above lead me to making a 10mm 1911 my EDC and a 1911 in .45 ACP a replacement weapon.

[alwaysshootin]

Good post, Harrygunner, and well written! I believe you answered the OP question. When Amsdorf wanted no emotion, I was done. I think there is a lot of emotion, when one decides, why they want to carry a specific weapon platform, and caliber. It took me years to conclude on the 10 for carry, and now I'm confident it was the right choice!

[Ascension]

Why 10mm?
Amazing stopping power that far exceeds a .45 in a much flatter shooting cartridge and little extra recoil.
Add the small size of the cartridge for the power so you can easily use high cap double stack mags like the 10 rounder in my Glock 29 carry pistol and I think it is the ultimate hand gun cartridge! 

[7]

What i know about the 10mm:  ( i own 2 glock 20sf's)

The 10mm is good for 2 and four leg protection up to Black Bears.  (maybe not including brown bears although many Alaska guides use them as back-up)
It is light enough to carry all day.
It really has no more recoil than the .45 or .40sw even with full power 10mm ammo.  (at least from the g20)
It is FAR more powerful than either the .45 or .40sw with the normal 10mm spec ammo.  ( Underwood!, Buffalo Bore, Doubletap)
It is accurate and flat shooting to 100 yards  (this is as far as i have shot it)
You can shoot .40sw..357sig...9/25 dillon....and 22lr from the same gun with barrel/ slide changes  (Glock20)
It holds 15 + 1 auto-loading rounds which equates to a heck of alot of firepower/energy in a medium size gun.
Great hunting handgun with the 6" barrel.
Huge range of ammo to choose from  (135 gr all the way to 230 gr).
Beyond staying proficient with your weapon.....it is not the best range cartridge as it is expensive to shoot.
It has a LOT of penetration.

Finally, it seems odd to me that this is an "oddball round" for much of the lower 48 when they simply cannot keep them in stock up here in Alaska.  In a place where people place bets on a weapon/ cartridge to protect life and property..........many of them have chosen the 10mm as a pistol cartridge.  ( many others as well to be fair)
Hope this helps.

[Bro KV]

Because its awesome