10mm Defense Ammo

[djdavis75]

I posted the following question over on GlockTalk and got some good responses, just wondering if I might learn something new here.

I recently bought a Glock 29, my first 10mm. I'm looking for a good self defense ammo. I will use the 29 for a night stand and carry pistol.

I'm currently considering going with some Underwood, but not sure what would be best for self defense. I can get 135 to 220 gr, and it seems the 29 will push all to over 1000 fps. I'm leaning toward something in the 155 to 200 gr range right now, sort of a balance between velocity, bullet mass, plus a wider range of bullet selections.

So is it better to have a 155 gr going 1400 fps, a 200 gr going 1150 fps, or is the 180gr @ 1250 fps a happy middle ground? Is this a Ford Vs Chevy debate? Just looking for suggestions.

Thanks,
David

[The_Shadow]

djdavis75, Welcome to the forum!  If you live in a populated area such as a residential area in close proximity to other houses, you may want to use the 165's or 155's should serve you very well.  If you're in a rural area, 180's or 200's may be even better overall.  Personally I carry Hornady 200 grain JHP's, but being this is a 10mm most any factory JHP will provide good performance.

Best regards! 

[djdavis75]

I live in a very rural area, as far as home defense, I'm not concerned about over penetration or anything.   Carrying would be my main concern, because I might carry into places like Walmart, etc...  I want a hard hitting round, but don't want an unusually high risk of shooting a perp and the round passing through and hitting someone else.  That's my main concern.

[REDLINE]

Welcome to the forum djdavis75!

All I can tell you is my favorite are 155gr Gold Dots at a relatively souped up velocity level like offered by Underwood.  I believe Underwood loads them at 1500 FPS.  That comes out to about 775 ft-lbs.  From your G29 probably still darn close to 750 ft-lbs. 

Anyway, for me it's simply about maximum energy on target with a bullet that will still put a hurt on the vitals.  I'm sure you're well aware others opinions will vary.  My thinking is based off of all kinds of stuff including grossly nonscientific backyard fun.  Ultimately you'll have to decide for yourself what flavor of Kool-Aid tastes best to your palate.  Just because I don't prefer to carry a heavier weight bullet doesn't mean I'll voluntarily take a hit from one either.

Good Luck with your decision!

[sqlbullet]

I live in a paradox...Major metropolitan area in the mountain west where we occasionally see bears in city parks.

So, currently I am carrying Buffalo Bore 180's that are at the end of their rotation.  Next up will be Nosler 200 JHP.  While I can't say I don't consider over-penetration, I don't let it weigh very heavily into my ammo choice in a carry load.

[pacapcop]

Hornandy has their 155 factory,it will save your ears if you had to draw.U/W's 135 and 155's,i had ear plugs in a switched over to full size ear protection.Id say 165 in U/W's all around.I know ringing is going to occur but mitigating severe damage will help your hearing.

[Ramjet]

I love the 10 and carry my Model 20 daily but I think and so does Mas that the 45 makes a better choice for SD in that there are many well proven rounds with allot more data nd SD ammo availability with the venerable 45. After thinking about I agree however woods carry or on the MTB the 10 rides with me the new model 21 will be my daily carry gun though.

[DAVIDF]

Accuracy first, penetration second, expansion third.  Doesn't have to be the most accurate round, but has to be good.  I prefer something that penetrates deeper, 16 to 18 inches. I prefer the heavier bullet weights, 170gr or higher.  I am currently carrying PMC 170gr hp. From Brass Fetcher's test, it appears to perform quite well. Looks to be about the same as Hornady 180gr xtp (which would be my first choice). I also prefer a round that has less recoil than a full house 10mm.

[sqlbullet]

I plan to load the Nosler 200 JHP to 1200 fps.  That is just shy of modern full-house 10mm auto, and shoots just fine from both my Glock and my Para.

[4949shooter]

Mas also said the 180 grain 10mm in the area of 1250 fps has fared well in police shootings.

[REDLINE]

In my mind there isn't an order of most important to least important.  To some extent there is, but I simply look at all needs as a whole and choose what meets my criteria best, as there are numerous excellent choices.  Then there's another aspect;  It partly will boil down to each individuals risk assessments.  Some live in bear country and others don't.  Some live in an apartment in town while others live in a rural area over a mile from the next dwelling.  Depending on overall weather conditions of the region of the country or world one lives in will determine if no one really wears anything heavier than a t-shirt, or is more normally wearing multiple heavy layers of clothing.  If you're on the road most of the time you may choose a round that's better toward shooting through vehicles, but someone who finds them selves mainly outdoors may opt differently.

There are certainly basic rules that have to be followed before we can hope for a self-defense round to work appropriately most of the time.  But even those will vary depending on one's expectation compared to another.

The round needs to be combat accurate to a distance you decide necessary.  The bullet should be capable of enough penetration to reach the vitals under at least slightly beyond normal circumstances.  The round needs to feed, extract and eject reliably in your platform of choice.  If choosing a hollow point bullet it should be of a proven design well known to expand after encountering clothing.

Beyond that, the choice is yours with most other variables up to you to follow through on (handling stressful shooting circumstances, shot placement, recoil management, quick reloads if need be,...).

Of course a reliable platform needs to be chosen for the selected ammo to do as it was intended.  As you've chosen the G29, you should have little chance of issue.

pacapcop brought up sound level of defensive ammo.  I disagree here 100% (just my opinion).  Once adrenalin gets flowing you will in many cases be protected from hearing damage.  Once enough adrenalin gets flowing (many times even in hunting scenarios) there are many times when you won't even be able to recall the sound of a shot AND it doesn't leave ears even ringing afterwards.  Now, if sustained gunfire ensues that may be a different story, but the vast majority of gunfights don't last that long.  Also, most of us will most likely never find ourselves in a self-defense situation requiring a round to be touched off at all.  In then end that leaves me leaning toward a higher powered round regardless the sound level.  To each their own.

Bottom line is yes, there are general criteria that need to be followed, and even they don't entirely limit you and allow you to tweak toward what's best for you, necessarily and optionally.  At the end of the day though those criteria can be tweaked using various platform/ammo combinations to suit your liking/needs that still equal a perfectly excellent option.  At the end of the day you have to weigh your own personal pros and cons and make the decision on your own.  No doubt it helps to have some guideline to follow along the way.

[REDLINE]

I see street results based on police shootings and whatnot being brought up.

I suggest at the same time learning all you can from street results to also not take them into direct account toward a specific round you will carry.

Street results have given us great guidance toward getting an excellent feel for what works and what doesn't.  Beyond that there is not necessarily any reason whatsoever to not choose a round that hasn't been street proven.  There are many reasons various law enforcement will never carry any and all rounds available to the general public that have zero bearing on how great or not an individual specific cartridge load is against whatever adversary they're defending against.

Various law enforcement are forced to choose a weapon/load combination that works for everyone in their group reasonably well.  As an example;  G20s and Underwood 10mm ammo doesn't generally fit that criteria.

It's the same in platform choice.  Plenty of general public folks stick to a revolver.  What percentage of law enforcement groups do you see doing the same?  Does that mean a GP-100 is 357 Magnum is a poor carry option?  Heck no!

Bottom line is yes, there is a wealth of positive knowledge to be gained from street results, but those same street results are not the end all be all in determining what you may or may not want to choose for yourself.

[pacapcop]

Well stated Redline. And from original post a self def round was a concern in a store, crowded area. A factory 155 with less recoil and boom I feel should be sufficient. You  are correct on adrenalin, a fire fight is a firefight. Throw in recoil, esp with the G29, and nuke velocity, I disagree. But we agree to disagree. Georgia arms makes I feel a sound round, a 155 at 1375,less recoil as I shot them and they are much manageable in the recoil dept as opposed to U/W's.

[4949shooter]

Great posts in this thread! This must be why I like it here so much. 

I do agree that there are plenty of good rounds out there that have yet to be street proven (or perhaps never will). I was just throwing that out there. Maybe the information will be helpful to the OP and maybe it won't. Either way it is good to know. Unfortunately, since 10mm isn't carried by LE anymore, and is not as popular of a round as we 10mm enthusiasts feel it should be, the 10 loads may never get a good baseline of data for us to examine and take into consideration.

I agree with PAcapcop in that the Hornady 155 load may be good for the needs of many shooters, or those who carry a handgun into potentially harm's way. Same for Georgia arms 155 grain. I also agree with redline in that everyone has their own specific needs.

With all the good advice in this thread, I am sure the OP will be able to figure it out for himself.

Oh, and welcome aboard djdavis75! 

[REDLINE]

I like that we have options and can choose which way to narrow those options via our own individual criteria (assuming pure ignorance doesn't enter the equation).

If there was only a single option for everything I doubt we'ld even have a forum, and life in the shooting world would be big-time boring.

We have dozens of factory loads available, dozens of platform choices (even if some equate to a small tweak here and there along with customized offerings)...

For those of us that handload we all choose different combinations of:  brass cases, bullets, powders, and primers.  How boring it be if limited to a single brass case, single bullet, single powder, and single primer.  On top of that there is a whole mountain of choices for different load equipment.

Limited choices would not be cool, and neither would being forced to use/apply various options available to us.

Choices are half the fun.