Police Marksman Magazine

[enidpd804]

I responded to an open call from the editor of Police Marksman magazine.  One of my articles was published in the latest issue.  I'll have another in the next issue.  My current article is over the pros and cons of rail mounted pistol lights.  Check it out. It's a good mag and free to read online. 

http://policemarksman.com/

[REDLINE]

That's pretty cool!

[pacapcop]

On the cover,the shooter keeps that finger along frame. Im old school, weaver stance and cannot adjust to that finger out.

[enidpd804]

http://policemarksman.com/2013/09/10/bullseye-close-quarters-carbine-tactics/

This is my article in the current Police Marksman on carbine tactics.  There will be a new issue as early as tomorrow with two articles and the cover. 

I plan a 10mm article in the near future.  I have a 610, G20 and 1006.  I'm finding it difficult to articulate our position on the greatness of the 10mm for law enforcement.  If anyone has any suggestions, please add them here. 

[4949shooter]

Nice article Warren!

I am looking forward to that 10mm article. I wish I had suggestions as to how we could make police brass understand the 10mm is the greatest service pistol cartridge on the planet..

[enidpd804]

Thank you, 4949.  I really enjoy your posts here and elsewhere.  It's a tough angle with the 10 and LE.  I don't want to do the history thing.  It's been done to death.  There really is no "evolution of" angle because that's pretty much over.  There's either something there I can't put my finger on or I just really want to write about the 10.   

[s0nspark]

I plan a 10mm article in the near future.  I have a 610, G20 and 1006.  I'm finding it difficult to articulate our position on the greatness of the 10mm for law enforcement.  If anyone has any suggestions, please add them here.

The things that stand out to me are the variety of loads available (thus covering more situations) and excellent terminal ballistics at distance with a flatter trajectory. Comparisons to the venerable .357 magnum might also be important to note.

Also, I may be mistaken but I believe 10mm with bonded loads handles intermediate barriers better than .45acp.

[The_Shadow]

It will be tough to sell the 10mm idea to Law Enforcement...Why?  At this point in time many agencies are actually reverting back to the 9mm.  They still believe more less powerful rounds are better than fewer potent rounds. 

Law Enforcement has a duty to act, officer safety first, protecting and saving innocent lives and bring the perpetrator to justice.  The last one being the goal of the department, bring the perpetrator or perpetrators to justice.  Therefore less than lethal steps usually are used to accomplish the task.  It is better for the department's public relations and legal standpoint.

Then there is the ammunition, universal standardization to one cartridge, that fits everyones firearm, cheaper from a budget standpoint, being a NATO/Military standard, just like the 5.56/223 makes it a feel good standard.

Just like the 10mm, the 40S&W doesn't fit any of these criteria, especially the International NATO standards, that this country has hearken itself to under the "O"Communist Dictatorship!  Be weary of the U.N. agreements and proceedings.

The U.S. standard used to be the 45ACP but even this has been sliding except for a few die hard segments and special forces.  They know of the heavier weight and ballistic knockdown it brings to the playing field.

So why should Law Enforcement, see the 10mm as fitting for their needs?  It is too powerful, even when loaded to 40S&W ballistics.  The guns are too big, too heavy, yet it doesn't hold enough ammunition, it recoils too much, doesn't fit peoples' hands, ammunition is too expensive, too hard to find.  The 10mm will probably kill too many perpetrators, instead of bringing them to trial justice.

"We The People" don't have the the luxury of a police force at the time of encounter, therefore we need to utilize the best we can, to stop a threat!  It is not our duty to bring perpetrators to justice, it is our duty to stop that threat!

[Steve4102]

So why should Law Enforcement, see the 10mm as fitting for their needs?  It is too powerful, even when loaded to 40S&W ballistics.  The guns are too big, too heavy, yet it doesn't hold enough ammunition, it recoils too much, doesn't fit peoples' hands, ammunition is too expensive, too hard to find.  The 10mm will probably kill too many perpetrators, instead of bringing them to trial justice 

  Don't forget than most LEO can't hit what they are aiming at.  Their Dept. hasn't the funds to pay for their practice ammo, so they don't practice.  The last thing American Citizens need is an LEO with a 10mm spraying rounds everywhere. 

[s0nspark]

At this point in time many agencies are actually reverting back to the 9mm.  They still believe more less powerful rounds are better than fewer potent rounds. 

Given how some of them seem to shoot I can understand the need for more capacity if they hope to hit anything other than bystanders :-/

I do think there is a growing backlash against what translates as a spray and pray mindset with some LE agencies, though. The public may know little of the difference between cartridges but they do understand the simple math of 3 shots fired vs 10...

Recently there was a local shooting involving the police where one of the responding officers apparently unloaded his duty weapon on a suspect hitting him 8 out of 10 times. Unfortunately the suspect was not a threat - he had been in an accident and was banging on some old lady's door late at night trying to get help. The media has had a field day with this.

The 10mm will probably kill too many perpetrators, instead of bringing them to trial justice.

"We The People" don't have the the luxury of a police force at the time of encounter, therefore we need to utilize the best we can, to stop a threat!  It is not our duty to bring perpetrators to justice, it is our duty to stop that threat!

Well said... definitely a case of differing objectives. Civilians generally do not have the benefit of other responders, radios, long guns in the trunk, etc. when the bad stuff happens. That is why it is advisable IMO to carry the largest caliber you can shoot effectively.

[s0nspark]

Don't forget than most LEO can't hit what they are aiming at.  Their Dept. hasn't the funds to pay for their practice ammo, so they don't practice.  The last thing American Citizens need is an LEO with a 10mm spraying rounds everywhere.

There certainly can be a gap between the proficiency level of an LEO and what the public assumes. Several recent shootings have brought that to light.

Anyone who carries a gun needs to train and do so regularly. If their agency does not foot the bill then it is up to the individual! Lax qualification requirements are also partly to blame... some I have heard of are just ludicrous!

LEOs are supposed to be highly trained professionals - yes, the bulk of their responsibilities are not related to shooting but demonstrating a high proficiency in that particular area (several times a year IMO) should be necessary in order to be allowed to carry. It is their JOB, after all!

This just really hits a nerve with me.

[enidpd804]

  "Don't forget than most LEO can't hit what they are aiming at."

Don't forget that you don't have any idea the proficiency level nationwide of law enforcement officers.  I've been to private ranges.  Cops around here shoot a heck of a lot better than anybody I've seen.  How much time do you spend at police ranges to give you such a wide knowledge base?  Nevermind.  I have no interest in your opinion.  Keep your negativity out of my thread.   

[enidpd804]

Don't forget than most LEO can't hit what they are aiming at.  Their Dept. hasn't the funds to pay for their practice ammo, so they don't practice.  The last thing American Citizens need is an LEO with a 10mm spraying rounds everywhere.

There is a real gap between the actual proficiency level of many LEOs and what the public assumes. Several recent shootings have brought that to light.

Anyone who carries a gun needs to train and do so regularly. If their agency does not foot the bill then it is up to the individual! Lax qualification requirements are also partly to blame... some I have heard of are just ludicrous!

LEOs are supposed to be highly trained professionals - yes, the bulk of their responsibilities are not related to shooting but demonstrating a high proficiency in that particular area (several times a year IMO) should be necessary in order to be allowed to carry. It is their JOB, after all!

This just really hits a nerve with me.

According to CLEET, when I went through the Academy, LEO's statewide had a 70% hit average in gunfights.  At the time, there was a big news item about LEO's nationwide having only a 17% hit ratio.  I don't know what it is currently.  I never hear about bystanders being shot in this region.  I do hear about it in states far, far away who have lax standards, 12# Glock triggers, etc. 

Anyway, that's not what this thread is about.  I'd like to keep it on track. 

[enidpd804]

...and the new issue was just posted.   

http://police-marksman.epubxp.com/title/37149?miniPop=false&alwaysCover=false&miniTitle=&miniColor=&miniLinkToTitle=false&miniUrl=&miniBg=FFFFFF&hideBg=true&width=701&height=440&sharing=false

[Steve4102]

Matulia (1985) stated that although Hollywood often portrays
police officers as sharp shooters, "in reality many police officers have a difficult
time meeting departmental qualification standards at the firing range,
let alone during a combat situation"


Michigan police departments, officers involved in deadly-force
encounters hit suspects in approximately 27% of the incidents (from 1976
to 1981). Research in New York City showed consistently low rates from
year to year for the New York Police Department (NYPD): 26% for 1987,
31% for 1988, and 23% for 1990 (Cerar, 1990; NYPD, 1988). Rates have
been less stable in Los Angeles where during the 1970s officers in the Los
Angeles Police Department (LAPD) hit their suspects in 56% of cases, but
from 1980 to 1988, the rate dropped to 28% (Meyer, 1980; M. Scott, personal
communication, February 17, 1989). Alpert (1989) reported that from
January 1984 through June 1988, officers in the Metro-Dade, Florida,
Police Department fired at 100 suspects, hitting their target in 31 cases. Pate
and Hamilton (1991) reported similar hit rates for the six largest police
agencies in 1986. The Dallas Police Department (1992) completed a survey
of big-city police departments during 1991, and rates ranged from a low of


http://cvpcs.asu.edu/sites/default/files/content/projects/hitting%20target%20article_0.pdf

Pretty sad shooting when carrying that thingy on your hip is there to save your life.