How to use Lee FCD without full-length-sizing (PIC HEAVY)

[RMM]

You're probably wondering why in the world someone would want to use the Lee FCD without full length sizing?  The answer is:  I already have one and I wanted to see if I could make it work for me (and I'm cheap!).      I think I've figured this out.

In the 10mm I have experiencing some leading/deposits with the DT .401 200gr. WFNGC (lead) and BBI 165 gr. (poly-coated) bullets.  As we all know, sizing is critical when dealing with lead/coated bullets (usually 0.001" over slugged diameter).  The Lee FCD was swaging the bullets from .401" down to ~.399"-.3985" depending on how thick the case was (I found that PMC are the thickest). 

With the BBI poly-coat bullets you really need to seat and crimp in separate steps as to not shave the coating.  I use a Lee Classic Turret (4-hole) and could seat the bullets then in another step adjust the seating die to crimp the already seated bullets, but that would slow down the process for me.

What I ended up doing is adjusting the Lee FCD up until it contacted just enough of the case mouth to take out the bell (the Lee FCD normally touches the shell holder).  The bullets are no longer getting swaged down, the case mouth measures good, and the cases all drop freely into my KKM barrel. 

This obviously does not give you the option to increase the crimp beyond flush, but in the 10mm you really don't need to do anything more than take the bell out of the case mouth. 

Hope this is helpful!

Update (Pictures Added):

Approximate case thickness at the mouth (new Starline brass, the PMC brass is much thicker which swages even more!)


165 Gr. BBI measurement before seating (some are .400 and .405, average of .405)


The amount of bell given (just enough for the bullet to sit flush by itself and not shave any material)


1.256: COAL on this loaded round


Case mouth measurement after seating but before Lee FCD


You can see here how far up the Lee FCD is adjusted (just enough to contact the case mouth and remove crimp)


Way up in there!



Case mouth measurement after Lee FCD only touching case mouth


Now It's time to pull the bullet to see what's going on...


Not too much swaging going on here!


Now let's try one with the Lee FCD adjusted down...


Doesn't look too bad when measuring the brass...


....but the bullet tells another story! (even from this angle you can see that there is a line where the bullet was swaged down)


Now let's try some DT .401 200 gr. WFNGC  (Same new Starline case)


Measurement before seating


Didn't seem to affect it as much but still not looking too good!


Of course I realize that I could do the same thing by buying a plain taper crimp die or seating & crimping in separate operations with my seating die but I like to experiment!  (As I am sure many of you do as well).

As I posted in another thread, all of these rounds drop freely into my KKM & Glock factory barrel and function flawlessly.

[DenStinett]

Richard:
Have you tried pre seating the Bullet to your OAL (with a Crimp) using a standard Seater Die, then use the FCD to just crimp it (not seat the Bullet too)

[DM1906]

If you are ''crimping" with the FCD until the die contacts the shell holder, you're WAY off the mark.  It's only used to apply the crimp to the desired diameter, and nothing more.  The "sizing" will only size to chamber diameter, in any case, if you are using it WITHOUT the crimp ring.  Follow the instructions and it won't swage your bullets too small.

[Steve4102]

My 10mm/40 Lee Factory crimp die had issues.  The carbide ring was IMO to small, it was swaging my lead bullets and causing issues with jacketed.  I sent it back to Lee and had them Open it up .002.  Works perfect for both jacketed and lead. 

My 45 and 9mm LFCD worked perfect right out of the box.

[RMM]

If you are ''crimping" with the FCD until the die contacts the shell holder, you're WAY off the mark.  It's only used to apply the crimp to the desired diameter, and nothing more.  The "sizing" will only size to chamber diameter, in any case, if you are using it WITHOUT the crimp ring.  Follow the instructions and it won't swage your bullets too small.

I'm sorry that I wasn't very clear about what is going on and what I'm doing.  As Steve4102 described the carbide sizing ring at the entrance of the die is too tight for cast/coated bullets and swages them down regardless of how the crimp is set.  The way you are describing the FCD it sounds like you are thinking of the Rifle FCD which operates differently than the handgun FCD.  The handgun FCD crimps exactly like a taper/roll crimp die except it has a carbide sizing ring at the entrance of the die.

I wasn't aware that Lee would open them up, I need to send mine in and have it done.  Did they charge you anything?

Den, I do not seat the bullet with the FCD (it wouldn't work).  It is the sizing ring being too small for the cast/coated bullets that is the problem, my explanation is a workaround.  I am going to be firing ~150 10mm rounds today that I loaded with the FCD sizing ring barely touching the case mouth.  They all measure right and drop in the barrel freely but I will let you know how they function in the gun.

[The_Shadow]

I did use my LEE FCD as a final crimp die in the beginning, It is what I bought it for.  However it actually made the bullets loose inside the casing.  I could twist them around which allowed them to spin inside.

I tried several several settings, more and less.  The results were not what I wanted.  I when back to using my RCBS for the seating to depth and then crimping in separate steps.

I found that the problems where more to do with improper sizing of the entire casing body than it was with seating and crimping...

Therefore I only use my LEE FCD for "Pass-Thru" sizing, prior to regular sizing and depriming...
This is the only way to fully size the entire casing stem to stern, any regular die can not reach the areas that are occupied by the radius of the carbide ring or the shellholder. 

One thing is for certain they will slide all the way inside the Lyman cartridge case gauge easily.  This gauge (SAAMI SPEC.) has a tighter tolerance than the chambers of most barrels.  The pictures below are my attempt to convey sizing issues.
The casing came out of the Glock factory barrel as shot then resized.

Here is a picture of a casing that was sized in an RCBS Carbide sizer touching the shellholder as it sits in the Lyman Case Gauge...it did fit my barrel chamber of the S&W1006 but not the LWD chamber.


Here is that same casing after being run thru the Lee FCD used as a "Pass-Thru Sizer" as it sits in the Lyman Case Gauge...
It is flush with the "Go" line and below the "No-Go"...


Get yourself a case gauge and see for yourself!

[Steve4102]

I wasn't aware that Lee would open them up, I need to send mine in and have it done.  Did they charge you anything?

Yes, and it wasn't cheap.  I think it was $25. 

[sqlbullet]

Over at cast boolits they have reported that some of the Lee dies are loose enough to not cause swaging issues, while others aren't.  I have never tried mine as I don't subscribe to the type of crimp the FCD applies to a straight wall case.

I love them for my bottle neck cartridges.

[RMM]

$25!  Wow!  I will buy a new taper crimp die for $13 or punch the ring out before I spend that kind of coin on this die.  In the meantime... hope to get out shooting today and I will let you know how my "fix" works.  

[Steve4102]

Over at cast boolits they have reported that some of the Lee dies are loose enough to not cause swaging issues, while others aren't. I have never tried mine as I don't subscribe to the type of crimp the FCD applies to a straight wall case.

I love them for my bottle neck cartridges.

  My LFCD apply a standard taper crimp to my pistol rounds.  What don't you like about a taper crimp?

[DM1906]

If the FCD is working correctly (apparently some have been undersize), it will crimp the case, appropriate to the cartridge type.  Autos will taper, revolvers will roll.  I think from my experience, it does as well or a better job than the seat/crimp die in a set, comparing only the crimp step (not seat/crimp).  It's more consistent and more "gentle" on the case mouth, as it doesn't rely on the VERY short end-stroke to crimp, unlike a seat-crimp die that must apply the crimp with the bullet still seating.  Not real critical on a revolver cartridge with a crimp-groove bullet, but it makes a difference on autos and revolvers w/o a groove.

[DenStinett]

DM:
That is way I seat (to OAL) first, then crimp in a second operation
This way, I do not get any Flashing around the Case Mouth and I run a lesser risk of cutting the Jacket / Plating

[DM1906]

DM:
That is way I seat (to OAL) first, then crimp in a second operation
This way, I do not get any Flashing around the Case Mouth and I run a lesser risk of cutting the Jacket / Plating

That's good, and the way it should be, regardless of the closing/crimping die used.  It's especially critical with plated bullets like you said, as it can cut the plating.

[RMM]

Just a quick update:  I ran about 75 rounds that I had loaded using the method described in the OP.  As I expected they all functioned flawlessly and leading/deposits were eliminated.  I will try and get some pictures soon.

[RMM]

OP Updated with pictures.