10mm 200XTP 13.0 AA#9 test

[DM1906]

AA9 powder.  It's so uneventful with the 10mm.  I know a lot of folks use it, and think they get good results, and that's fine.  Fact is, you just can't get enough of the stuff in the case to really perform.  It's like trying to use H110/W296, it just ain't happening.  The powder is too slow, and not dense enough to get the pressure up (unless you are trying the "lite" versions, which are misleading).  It's a good powder, just not good for most 10mm.  Get it compressed to 120% (not easy, at all), and you might have something.

That's why it's good for someone like me... can't get enough in the case to blow myself up! 

I also loaded some 800x rounds ala Underwood... I have been working up to 10.2 gr under a 165 grain pill and 9.4 grains under a 180 gr HST.  Will chrono them today if possible. No smilies or crazy pressure signs yet working up .1 gr at a time from 9.4 & 8.8 grains respectively but I would be lying if I didn't say that I remove the magazine and wear a glove for the first few rounds of each increased charge. 

No doubt!  That's what I do.  Revision goggles and Kevlar gloves (and a ballistic face shield if that isn't giving me the warm and fuzzy).  Do whatever it takes to get the comfort level needed.  I've gone so far with some wildcat load development to wear full welding leathers.  It was never needed and hot as hell, but necessary at the time.

[REDLINE]

AA9 powder.  It's so uneventful with the 10mm.  I know a lot of folks use it, and think they get good results, and that's fine.  Fact is, you just can't get enough of the stuff in the case to really perform.  It's like trying to use H110/W296, it just ain't happening.  The powder is too slow, and not dense enough to get the pressure up (unless you are trying the "lite" versions, which are misleading).  It's a good powder, just not good for most 10mm.  Get it compressed to 120% (not easy, at all), and you might have something.

What would be cool for a new Accurate powder would be a No.8, where charge weights would be similar to No.7 but with the potency of No.9.

Something like that could hypothetically give Longshot and 800X a run for their money.

[DM1906]

AA9 powder.  It's so uneventful with the 10mm.  I know a lot of folks use it, and think they get good results, and that's fine.  Fact is, you just can't get enough of the stuff in the case to really perform.  It's like trying to use H110/W296, it just ain't happening.  The powder is too slow, and not dense enough to get the pressure up (unless you are trying the "lite" versions, which are misleading).  It's a good powder, just not good for most 10mm.  Get it compressed to 120% (not easy, at all), and you might have something.

What would be cool for a new Accurate powder would be a No.8, where charge weights would be similar to No.7 but with the potency of No.9.

Something like that could hypothetically give Longshot and 800X a run for their money.

That's pretty good, but we already have that.  For now, we'll just call it 410.  Try it.  You'll like it! (if you can find it, cuz I can't, and I'm out)

[REDLINE]

AA9 powder.  It's so uneventful with the 10mm.  I know a lot of folks use it, and think they get good results, and that's fine.  Fact is, you just can't get enough of the stuff in the case to really perform.  It's like trying to use H110/W296, it just ain't happening.  The powder is too slow, and not dense enough to get the pressure up (unless you are trying the "lite" versions, which are misleading).  It's a good powder, just not good for most 10mm.  Get it compressed to 120% (not easy, at all), and you might have something.

What would be cool for a new Accurate powder would be a No.8, where charge weights would be similar to No.7 but with the potency of No.9.

Something like that could hypothetically give Longshot and 800X a run for their money.

That's pretty good, but we already have that.  For now, we'll just call it 410.  Try it.  You'll like it! (if you can find it, cuz I can't, and I'm out)

Accurate doesn't make 410.  Alliant makes 410.

Regardless, what type of 10mm load are you saying 410 is so good for?  Plinking?.....Nuclear?.....Light Bullets?.....Heavy Bullets?.....?

[DM1906]

AA9 powder.  It's so uneventful with the 10mm.  I know a lot of folks use it, and think they get good results, and that's fine.  Fact is, you just can't get enough of the stuff in the case to really perform.  It's like trying to use H110/W296, it just ain't happening.  The powder is too slow, and not dense enough to get the pressure up (unless you are trying the "lite" versions, which are misleading).  It's a good powder, just not good for most 10mm.  Get it compressed to 120% (not easy, at all), and you might have something.

What would be cool for a new Accurate powder would be a No.8, where charge weights would be similar to No.7 but with the potency of No.9.

Something like that could hypothetically give Longshot and 800X a run for their money.

That's pretty good, but we already have that.  For now, we'll just call it 410.  Try it.  You'll like it! (if you can find it, cuz I can't, and I'm out)

Accurate doesn't make 410.  Alliant makes 410.

Regardless, what type of 10mm load are you saying 410 is so good for?  Plinking?.....Nuclear?.....Light Bullets?.....Heavy Bullets?.....?

Yeah, it's Alliant.  Doesn't matter what's on the label if it gets the job done.  It's comparable to Blue Dot, but a little more lofty, shoots a little softer and less flashy.  It meters easier, more like AA7/9..  I haven't tried jacketed or cast bullets smaller than 180, but it does well with those and 205 WFN.  Originally, I wanted to work it up for 155 gr. Barnes, but it's too lofty for that long of a bullet.  It sounded good at the time, but like AA9 and 2400, just can't get enough in the case.  I used the pound I had on mostly 180 gr. XTP's.  It turned out at similar performance to AA7 and BD, but about 15% less economical.  Marginally greater performance was more charge weight, so economy went out the window for the gain.  More costly per pound than BD, and greater charge weight than AA7.  Cleaner burning than both, though.  All full power load objective (1300/1200, respectively), and it just made it.  I don't think it'll go nuke with heavier bullets.  It may be better suited for lighter bullets, but I gave up before getting there.  No pressure issues noticed, as I recall.

[REDLINE]

Yeah, it's Alliant.  Doesn't matter what's on the label if it gets the job done.

It kind of does when my whole premise was pushing for a Accurate Powders No.8 powder. 

It's comparable to Blue Dot, but a little more lofty, shoots a little softer and less flashy.  It meters easier, more like AA7/9..  I haven't tried jacketed or cast bullets smaller than 180, but it does well with those and 205 WFN.  Originally, I wanted to work it up for 155 gr. Barnes, but it's too lofty for that long of a bullet.  It sounded good at the time, but like AA9 and 2400, just can't get enough in the case.  I used the pound I had on mostly 180 gr. XTP's.  It turned out at similar performance to AA7 and BD, but about 15% less economical.  Marginally greater performance was more charge weight, so economy went out the window for the gain.  More costly per pound than BD, and greater charge weight than AA7.  Cleaner burning than both, though.  All full power load objective (1300/1200, respectively), and it just made it.  I don't think it'll go nuke with heavier bullets.  It may be better suited for lighter bullets, but I gave up before getting there.  No pressure issues noticed, as I recall.

First you say;  That's pretty good, but we already have that.  For now, we'll just call it 410.  Try it.  You'll like it!

Then you say what's quoted above which was more negative than positive.

What was I going to like so much about Alliant 410, and how is Alliant 410 comparable to the hypothetical Accurate No.8 I made up for the reasons I brought it up?  Alliant strictly says 410 is not to be used in any handgun load.

I feel like I'm missing something?

[DM1906]

I know what the label says, and I think they're wrong.  The testing, and subsequent ~750 rounds I fired certainly suggested otherwise.  You suggested a hypothetical powder, and I suggested a real powder that falls into the groove you suggested.  Perhaps there isn't an 8 is because they found what I found:  No real use for a powder, "right there", or perhaps maybe, but would it be worth the effort and expense.  According to my extensive use of AA powders, the powder I suggested did exactly that, in 10mm.  This is an enjoyable hobby.  Picking nits makes it less enjoyable.  Next time you post a hypothetical question, perhaps you should include your rules for reply.

[RMM]

Finally got out shooting yesterday night (around 8:45) but the sun was not cooperating with the chronograph.  I shot one 13.0 AA#9 200 gr. XTP (no smiley), one 165 gr. BBI 10.2 gr. 800x (no smiley), and one 180 HST 9.4 gr. 800x (no smiley).   All through the factory Glock barrel.  I will chrono another day and report back here.

I did shoot about 65 165 gr. BBI through the factory barrel and the leading and deposits are gone now that I am not passing through the Lee FCD.

[The_Shadow]

RMM, so you were using the FCD to do your final crimps, and that squeezed the case and the cast bullet down to a smaller diameter and this was what was causing your leading issues if I read you report correctly! 

Sounds like your results got better without using the FCD to finalize...Good for you!

[REDLINE]

You suggested a hypothetical powder, and I suggested a real powder that falls into the groove you suggested.

We'll have to agree to strongly disagree on that one.

[REDLINE]

Finally got out shooting yesterday night (around 8:45) but the sun was not cooperating with the chronograph.  I shot one 13.0 AA#9 200 gr. XTP (no smiley), one 165 gr. BBI 10.2 gr. 800x (no smiley), and one 180 HST 9.4 gr. 800x (no smiley).   All through the factory Glock barrel.  I will chrono another day and report back here.

I did shoot about 65 165 gr. BBI through the factory barrel and the leading and deposits are gone now that I am not passing through the Lee FCD.

Thanks for sharing!  What does BBI stand for?

[sqlbullet]

Finally got out shooting yesterday night (around 8:45) but the sun was not cooperating with the chronograph.  I shot one 13.0 AA#9 200 gr. XTP (no smiley), one 165 gr. BBI 10.2 gr. 800x (no smiley), and one 180 HST 9.4 gr. 800x (no smiley).   All through the factory Glock barrel.  I will chrono another day and report back here.

I did shoot about 65 165 gr. BBI through the factory barrel and the leading and deposits are gone now that I am not passing through the Lee FCD.

Thanks for sharing!  What does BBI stand for?

https://blackbulletsinternational.com/

[REDLINE]

Thanks.  Love the overall design of that 165.

[RMM]

They are also a really good deal.  8.7 cents each if you buy a case, 10 cents each if you buy 1000 (free shipping).  I bought 1000 to start with and depending on how things go with these 1000 (so far so good after fixing the sizing issue) I will buy a case next time. 

Hopefully the chronograph will cooperate next time I go out but I think that I am loading these ~1,300 FPS with no leading/excessive deposits in either the Glock or KKM 6" barrel (9.2 gr. Longshot).   The first 50 I ran leaded the Glock barrel badly (was pulling out strips) and 25 the KKM lightly (brush took it out) but the last 65 I shot without running through Lee FCD through the Glock barrel didn't leave anything that a few passes with just a cotton patch w/ CLP didn't take out. 

[preventec47]

AA9 powder.    The powder is too slow, and not dense enough to get the pressure up (unless you are trying the "lite" versions, which are misleading)..

What would be cool for a new Accurate powder would be a No.8, where charge weights would be similar to No.7 but with the potency of No.9.

Something like that could hypothetically give Longshot and 800X a run for their money.

/////////////
I already load and shoot with AA #8.  It is my standard go to with 155gr XTP bullets.
my AA #8 powder is a 50-50 mixture of #9 and #7.   What I have done is slowed
down the #7 and sped up  the #9.   I got my incentive from the pressure data from
Accurate Arms 3.2.2 10mm load data.   Look at the pressures for the 155xtp bullets
with AA#7 and AA#9 in the load data    see attached.  I load with Starline brass
and 16gr of my special mix AA#8  to exceed any of their velocity numbers and
I am pretty confident I am not exceeding the 37.5K pressure max  I 1st described this
about 2 years ago on another forum and was criticized for breaking the sacred rule
of not mixing powders.  I actually feel that I was just adjusting burn rates as the
powders are nearly identical in most respects.  Anyway, just wanted to report about
2 years of success with this approach and about 450 rounds fired.  I did approach this
incrementally however and built up to my loads.  I began with 10 percent increment
increases with #7 added to 16gr of #9 till I reached 50/50 and everything stayed cool.
BTW, I am shooting with SW 1006 but I dont feel like these are nuclear loads.
Just well balanced loads with a perfectly tuned power for the bullet weight,
case capacity and barrel length.



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