Speaking about brass...

[The_Shadow]

Intercooler sent me the JAG brass from the Selway 180 grain loads that was shot from his pistol.
Chronograph info:
Match 4.75" 1156, 1167, 1159, 1145, 1158. Average = 1157 FPS/ 535 LBS
Razorback 5" 1192, 1169. Average = 1180.5 FPS/ 557 LBS
1006 5" 1153 FPS/ 531 LBS
Those guns have good chamber support and these were medium loads.

JAG Brass Expansion
0.4315"
0.4310"
0.4250"
0.4310"
0.4300"
0.4250"
0.4315"
0.4315"

While this was the order which I measured them, it does seem to indicate which ones may have be shot from which of the guns.  Can you pick the guns which fired which from the measured cases?    While I have no way of knowing exactly, the measurements seem to indicate which cartridge was fired from which. 

I have studied the data from Jag's website and I was impressed by their product.  From my inspections and measurement I really like this brass.  I reconditioned these brass by "Pass-Thru" sizing, then run them thru the regular handloading process and reloaded them with some of the powders and loads that match Some Factory loads.

10mm rounds were put together with Hornady 200 grain XTP's...soon these will be headed to Intercooler for testing.
Hornady 200 grain XTP one each of the following;
9.4 grains IMR800X - matches Underwood loading 1250 fps
9.4 grains LongShot - matches Swamp Fox's loading 1240 fps
10.5grains Blue Dot - matches my load I use 1200 fps
8.4 grains Power Pistol - matches my load 1235 fps
12.6grains AA #9 - matches Accurate Arms book load 12.5 1170 fps 37,000 psi

RCBS 200 grain cast TCBB (SWC)  made 3 of these with my cast bullets
10.0 grains Blue Dot - 1200 +

Intercooler's test will show us even more data as he post the results...

This will be a great test of the JAG Brand of brass, maybe Intercooler will be able to collect these afterwards and send them back for re-evaluation sometime in the future. 

[sqlbullet]

is JAG still just an OEM supplier and can us mortals buy their brass now too?

[The_Shadow]

For now Jagemann Technologies is not sold to individuals as components yet...Please contact them to put that bug in their ear!   http://www.jagemanntech.com/

This is my write up:

Hello, I have obtained some of the Jag 10mm brass and studied it after the cartridge has been shot.  I must say I am impressed so far with the quality and workmanship.  I am in the process of re using your product via my own handloading.   I will be putting some loads together to equal the upper limits of performance and this will be my best judgment of this brass' performance from a re-loaders' stand point.  While this testing will push the product to known limits, I remain confident that it will provide good service.  I will write a report back after I test the ones I have.

It would be nice to have more of the Jag Brass as new vs. used to test even more in the real world performance.  Maybe you could send me a small sample to work with...that would be some real help.

I hope that some day you will offer your products for sale to those of us who handload our own cartridges, for our performance needs.

Thanks and best regards,

[Intercooler]

Help me out. Can you match the brass up for me?

[The_Shadow]

You shot 5 from the Match I see these as being 1 @ 0.4310" / 4 @ 0.4315"
You shot two from the RazorBack 2 @  0.4250"
You shot one from the S&W1006 1 @ 0.4300"

It is just how I think of them as they were measured and based on that expansion!  Does this sort of make sense? 

[Intercooler]

Yea. Would it help any if I got pre/post measurements on stuff I fire? Where to measure? I'm going today with the Hunter.

[The_Shadow]

I usually rotate the cases looking for a MAX measurement which comes fairly low on the casing where we normally see some bulges and or smiles.  Pre-measuring a casing is really not too important, but to judge a load's pressure acting on the casing vs. chamber dimensions are usually what we are looking at.

As we observe a high impulse loading the brass will swell to fit the chamber, lighter loadings may not fully expand to max chamber size.  So measuring your chamber in comparison to the expended case expansion is can tell you if the brass is exceeding the chamber at the 6 o'clock position and if the pressure exceeds that of the brass' strength as is evident by what we term a "SMILE" / "FROWN" depending on which way you look at the casing! 

While splits and case cracks that run the length of a casing, tends to indicate a brass that is brittle and resisting the expanding forces.

[Intercooler]

I took my calipers and measured pre/post this evening right up from the extractor groove.

American Eagle 180gr FMJ fairly light 10mm load (Razorback) .419"/.425", .419/.424", .419/.424". Average = .0053"
RightToBear 180gr FMJ good medium 10mm load (Razorback) .419"/.424", .419"/.423", .419"/.423". Average = .0043"
Underwood Ammo 180gr TMJ strong 10mm load (Razorback) .420"/.424", .419"/.424", .420"/.424". Average = .0043"

American Eagle 180gr FMJ fairly light 10mm load (Hunter) .419"/.428", .419"/.429", .419"/.428". Average = .0093"
RightToBear 180gr FMJ good medium 10mm load (Hunter) .420"/.431", .419"/.429", .419"/.430". Average = .0106"
Underwood Ammo 180gr TMJ strong 10mm load (Hunter) .420"/.431", .420"/.430", .420"/.430". Average = .0103"

Remington 115gr FMJ (XD) .384"/.389", .385"/.389", .385"/.389". Average = .0043"
Independence 115gr FMJ (XD) .385"/.388", .388"/.388", .387", .388". Average = .0013"

Looking at that .388" starting number it was pretty fat and did nothing. Does that pretty much mean max expansion on this barrel is roughly .388"?


It also looks like you are right that my Razorback is the tightest (chamber support correct?). I kind of always thought it may because if one is more particular on the ammo...it's this one!

[Intercooler]

Would love to see some comparison Glock numbers in a stock barrel and aftermarket (finger pointing at the new owner) 

I will do the 1006 and Match next time out but I think you have those pegged.

[The_Shadow]

You are seeing what I was saying!    Yes the Razor Back does seem to have the tighter chamber.

The pistol you shot the 9mm stuff, looks to be 0.389" Chamber, with the Independence 115 FMJ being slightly less pressure than the Remington 115 FMJ...

There can be a difference in bullet diameters and length that can affect pressure values
There can be a difference in bullet seating depth, crimp and case retention that can affect pressure values

BTW, nice job recording your values and documenting them. 

[Intercooler]

Remington is loaded a little hotter than the Independence.

When picking up brass in the past I did notice the Razorback's looked a little better. In this way of measuring things can we tell what 10mm out there has the best support? Need a Kimber to do the test.

[The_Shadow]

The largest case expansion from my S&W 1006 was casing Diameter from Tested 11/29/2012 Underwood 135 Gr. Nosler JHP 1738 fps : Diameter 0.4325" @ the light "Smile"  primer GONE popped out!, case didn't eject.
Tested 11/29/2012 Underwood 155 Gr. Hornady XTP 1503 fps : Diameter 0.4280"-0.4270"  primer slightly flatten
Tested 11/29/2012 Underwood 165 Gr. Hornady XTP 1415 fps : Diameter 0.4275"  primer slightly flatten
Tested 11/29/2012 Underwood 180 Gr. Hornady XTP 1326 fps : Diameter 0.4275"  primer slightly flatten
Tested 11/29/2012 Underwood 220 Gr. Hard Cast WFN 1209 fps : Diameter 0.4285"  primer moderately flatten, case didn't eject.


The largest case expansion from my Glock 29 Factory Barrel was casing was 0.4340" 
This was from IMR 800X 10mm test with the 800X 9.4 grains under the 200 Grain XTP, 350 CCI LP, seated to 1.255"
From the Storm Lake factory length barrel  I have only seen 0.4265" as a max so far.

[MCQUADE]

You guy's must be unemployed or retired, NASA maybe? All I know is that I like to take a few fired cases and cycle them through my Smith 3rd gens after cleaning as a function test. I know immediately when I hit a round fired from a glock, gotta dig out the needle nose pliers and twist her out. Smart huh? I did it yesterday.

[The_Shadow]

MCQUADE, yes I'm retired but still do odd jobs grass cutting etc.

You need some dummy rounds for you cycling testing.  Do you handload?

[MCQUADE]

Reload some but still a novice but learning alot from you guys. I do have most of my stuff but I don't have a place to set it up yet ,working on that. Hopefully, I can retire in 6 years with 30 years of service but it ain't getting any easier. I do cast and use a friends press for now. Been buying underwood mostly. But....I blew out my right knee on Memorial Day and am out of work for a month, maybe I need to bolt the redding turret up.