Underwood 200 XTP Brass Blow OUT!

REDLINE · May 25 2013 12:59:48 PM MDT

Quote from: DM1906 on May 25 2013 08:18:49 AM MDT
Quote from: Intercooler on May 25 2013 03:29:35 AM MDTIt's going to be Starline. Kevin has never used anything but Starline.

I don't think so. He couldn't get his "regular" Starline order, so he had to get "something else". Starline is backordered on 10mm, months away, the reason he can't get enough. Starline didn't "just happen" to have a supply of nickel brass (with his headstamp) laying around to get him by until the regular order shipped. Nickel order lead times are further out than plain brass (3-6 months, by recent reports, no exceptions). He went to another bulk supplier, that somehow was able to fill a large custom order in a short period. This means it's a "less popular" supplier, which usually indicates "less desirable", or a supplier not used by any other major ammunition manufacturer. Probably Armscor or one of their subs (possibly overseas, indicated by the short lead period), which could explain the quality issue. The failures you've seen here are not common of Starline brass, plain or nickel. If Starline were, somehow, able to fill an order of nickel brass, they surely would have been able to fill a plain brass order in the same or less time. Kevin apologized for having nickel brass, but I think he was apologizing for more than just that.

DM1906; I was thinking the same thing.

4949shooter · May 25 2013 01:12:52 PM MDT

Either way it is irresponsible for any manufacturer compromise shooter safety by using low quality brass. The new nickel brass obviously wasn't tested with the higher pressure loads.

Tim Sundles may be using different bullets in his #21b load, but the brass is obviously of quality as we have not heard of KB's or split casings with his ammo up to this point.

Let's not condone lack of quality or testing where shooter safety is a concern.

Intercooler · May 25 2013 01:33:32 PM MDT

Rather than speculate I just called ${$default_wink_smiley}$

Starline Starline Starline.... with Underwood headstamp just like I thought. For whatever reason with the Nickel plated Kevin said their has been a few split cases and he will exchange them for those concerned. OP you can phone him up if you haven't done so already and he will swap you out. He is about as easy of a person to talk with as anyone I know and will do whatever is needed. Even answers on the weekend!

doverpack12 · May 25 2013 01:35:52 PM MDT

I'm fine with the ones I have. I did take a picture of the brass headstamp as requested.

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4949shooter · May 25 2013 01:37:49 PM MDT

Quote from: Intercooler on May 25 2013 01:33:32 PM MDT
Rather than speculate I just called ${$default_wink_smiley}$

Starline Starline Starline.... with Underwood headstamp just like I thought. For whatever reason with the Nickel plated Kevin said their has been a few split cases and he will exchange them for those concerned. OP you can phone him up if you haven't done so already and he will swap you out. He is about as easy of a person to talk with as anyone I know and will do whatever is needed. Even answers on the weekend!

IC, did you asked him if he tested the new cases? What did he say about the splits?

Intercooler · May 25 2013 01:39:58 PM MDT

Since I just spoke with him 10 minutes ago now would be fine to call for an exchange if you want. I relayed to him about the 180 test the other day and being in the #3 spot now ${$default_shocked_smiley}$ He's good with it and confirmed the downloading. ${$default_cool_smiley}$

4949shooter · May 25 2013 01:43:15 PM MDT

Well at least they are taking some responsibility. Now we just have to ensure quality components are being used and we will be good to go!

I might even order from them again. ${$default_wink_smiley}$

Intercooler · May 25 2013 01:45:27 PM MDT

He said a few case splits have been reported with one swapped out. I'm a little shocked that anyone with a case split or three doesn't take advantage of the offer. Could be something in the plating process where the loads have to be backed down a ton more. I'm no Nickel plated brass expert but the only split I ever had too. Maybe that is why it isn't really used in 10mm? Beats me.

4949shooter · May 25 2013 02:49:32 PM MDT

I don't know, but the only other ten mil loads with nickel cases I can think of are the low powered Federal Hydrashok and the Remington 180 grain fmj.

Intercooler · May 25 2013 03:01:27 PM MDT

Where did DM1906 go? He had all the answers and might know something about Nickel plated brass as it relates to 10mm ${$default_grin_smiley}$

REDLINE · May 25 2013 04:18:19 PM MDT

Quote from: doverpack12 on May 24 2013 08:28:12 PM MDTChanged to a ISMI 24 lb recoil spring today from the 22 lb I had in and shot some more Underwood 200 XTP from the same box I had the blowout I first posted on the thread. Well HAD ANOTHER today not the same though. Picture below shows it. These shoot great other than the brass no being up to par or the loads being too hot for it.

Did you happen to chrono these 3?

The rounds in the first batch you shot seemed to be clearly over pressure if your chrono was giving correct readings.

If they were, and in conjunction with a stock glock barrel that has a very generously sized chamber, I don't think it's much of a leap to see how case splitting in this instance would be greatly enhanced no matter what brand of brass was used. On top of that I wonder if nickel plated brass makes it worse yet.

At the same time I would think the primers in the cases should be at least just about falling out too though, and they don't seem to be. So I just don't know.

DM1906 · May 25 2013 05:45:54 PM MDT

Quote from: Intercooler on May 25 2013 03:01:27 PM MDT
Where did DM1906 go? He had all the answers and might know something about Nickel plated brass as it relates to 10mm ${$default_grin_smiley}$

Sorry. Been out of town most of the day. Back just now.

I still don't buy it. Unless he had a pending order (why would he apologize for something he planned?... that still doesn't make sense....), either he isn't being truthful (to his knowledge or not), or Starline isn't. 3-6 months is 3-6 months, and Starline's policy is first-come-first-serve, no matter how much you order. Midway had Starline nickel for a couple hours, and plain brass for over a week.

I dunno. I've used a lot of Starline nickel brass, in 10mm and a dozen other calibers, and have NEVER experienced that level of failure, or ANY failure above what may be expected from a similar quality level brass. I've split some, and had other failures, but NONE on the first firing, or not due to my actions. I can't believe Starline made a bad batch of brass, just for Kevin. I have a current lot of Starline nickel (with various headstamps) that I beat the snot out of. No splits. Not even full-nuclear 9x25D I sized from the same 10mm.

Maybe they got a bad batch. But, it's so rare with Starline, I'll have to convene a Congressional committee to believe it (unless they plea the 5th).

Intercooler · May 25 2013 06:06:56 PM MDT

Feel free to phone him up to pick his brain. Maybe you can ask the right questions to get the information about the Nickel. I remember when I spoke to him a while back when getting the Underwood headstamp it was a considerable commitment. Possibly it was part of that which included some Nickel. I knew he has only used Starline since inception ${$default_grin_smiley}$

DM1906 · May 25 2013 08:13:22 PM MDT

Quote from: Intercooler on May 25 2013 06:06:56 PM MDT
Feel free to phone him up to pick his brain. Maybe you can ask the right questions to get the information about the Nickel. I remember when I spoke to him a while back when getting the Underwood headstamp it was a considerable commitment. Possibly it was part of that which included some Nickel. I knew he has only used Starline since inception ${$default_grin_smiley}$

I'm not disagreeing with you, or disbelieve you. Just saying the story doesn't add up without more detail. I don't use his products, but know a lot of people who do, the reason for my concern. He told you. You told me (us). A commitment for a headstamp is not considerable, in any way other than cost of tooling. His volume justifies it, I'm sure, but I seriously doubt a "nickel" requirement was part of it. If there were a nickel commitment, we're back where we started. It was planned, but he apologized for it when it happened. The message I saw about the "new" use of nickel brass sounded like it was a last-resort option he hadn't planned, and had no choice, if production was to continue.

doverpack12 · May 25 2013 09:39:51 PM MDT

I did chrono those three but I'm pretty sure the sun was messing with my chrono because I also shot factory silvertips and double tap nosler 200 grainers and they were all quite high. I normally get around 1175 with silvertips and 200 noslers and instead I was 1350 plus. Same with the Underwood rounds except one a cloud came over and I got 1262 fps. I was shooting one shot recovering the brass and then recovering the bullet so I had some time between shots. I don't believe for a second any one of the three was going 1350 so I'm almost convinced it was the lighting on my chrono. I was using the sky screens but the sun was early in the moring and at an angle. I may try again this weekend.